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Open Carry: One Cop's Professionalism

Oceanside (Calif.) Police Officer Matthew Lyons shows a professional and courteous approach in dealing with this open-carry activist.

July 25, 2011

Comments (24)

Displaying 1 - 24 of 24

Ranger04 @ 7/25/2011 8:14 PM

The officer showed complete and unparalleled respectably for the citizen. I do not believe the citizen was as generous with his cooperation. Any way, the officer showed something that we don't see that often, in what could have been a'mine is bigger than yours" moment turned out completely different.I salute that officer and thank him for his service to our nation and to his community.

notmeofficer @ 7/25/2011 9:25 PM

One problem
If we saw the entire encounter then I dont know what the original PC was for the stop...
The person as far as I could tell never identified himself other than a first name.. showed no ownership of the gun... other than saying it was his...

I have the right to confirm the weapon isnt stolen..(496 PC) and would have checked same... I have the right to confirm the person I have detained.. and he WAS detained.. isnt a felon.. (12021PC)

So from MY perspective as a California peace officer... this stop WAS NOT handled the way I would have handled it...then again.. we dont know everything that happened because we only see a snippet of tape...

If all this checked out I would send this person down the road with a friendly.. yes its your right.. and no its not smart...

JJJ @ 7/26/2011 12:32 AM

I agree that the officer should have done some more investigating but all in all he did a good job.

JS @ 7/26/2011 5:01 AM

He was trying to prove a point and was not cooperative. I would have proven mine as well by getting his full name and info as its required by law to identify yourself to LE for an FI, and ran him for warrants at the minimum! John Does can sit in our jail until they are identified!

scpdblue @ 7/26/2011 5:01 PM

I would have at least ran the ser#.My tone would have been the same as the officer in the video.If everything checks out 04 then he is on his way.The weapon was a 40S&W HI-Point AKA; A homie gun Or heavy Glock.Its cheap but it go's bang.

Cantonresident @ 7/26/2011 9:35 PM

Notmeofficer...typical attitude of a poor cop. There was no probable cause here to even inquire on pc496 or pc12021. Stolen property or not, it's not for you to find out unless there is probable cause to suspect it is stolen. The same for running a check for a felony. If someone is not breaking any law you have no right to even check. This isn't a police state. Your attitudes make me sick.

ElderMike @ 7/27/2011 9:56 AM

I am a former Marine also and I am still a Law Enforcement Officer. This stop would have never went down this way in a poor neighborhood or if the citizen in question was a minority. This was piss poor police work because the officer does not know if he was wanted, a convicted felon, getting ready to kill a witness or someone that has a protection order against him. He does not know if the gun is stolen, etc........ Very sad to see. I would have lawfully detained him until we found out who he was and all of the other facts that I mentioned above. Very poor police work. P.s. was he a former Marine or not? Nobody knows, he could have been AWOL, or received a dishonorable discharge!

Citizen Joe @ 7/28/2011 8:21 AM

The citizen was well within his rights not to give his name. By law he was not required to walking down the street. He was commiting no crime. Big props to the officer. Well done. Seems like some LEO's here are upset because the citizen knew his rights and stood up to defend them. Maybe those same upset LEO's should really study the 4th amendment, and adhere to your oath to support and defend the Constitution instead of trying to strip people of their rights.

cowop @ 7/28/2011 6:11 PM

If you are in law enforcement, you know the officer can't check the serial number. If he is sly and has a photographic memory then he could get a glance of the serial number and run it. This did not seem like a detainment. The only thing he told him to do was to keep his hand away from the gun and not to pull it or the magazine out. I do however agree that the open carry philosophy is BS especially with the fact that they don’t have to show ID. You could use any name you want and how are we to know who we are dealing with. Talk about officer safety. As for the gun, yes it could also be stolen or an illegal firearm. The fact that these advocates of open carry openly display their weapons and generally have a fully loaded magazine again is BS. You could have any type of person out there who is using this as a cover in order to gain some type of advantage against LEO's or the general public.

As for the camera, remember, bad guys use them to document their wrong doings. They need to get rid of open carry and for those who want to carry, legally, run them through a similar CCW process. One of these days some bad guy is going to see and identify an open carry advocate, know the gun isn’t or shouldn’t be loaded and take advantage of him/her. The guy in this video was obviously alone and with one hand on the camera and if he is smart the other by one nowhere need the gun, a much larger target without a loaded firearm.

For the open carry advocates, it’s just a normal day and they feel it’s their right. How about training for these people? Apparently you are not required to have any type of training to openly carry, LAME! At least, if nothing else, they should have to take the same classes as CCW people.

What about citizens going about their day? How are they going to react? The rest of the law abiding people have the right to feel safe, don’t you think?

Get rid of open carry, period.

differentworld @ 7/29/2011 10:51 AM

Wow!!! Being LE in New York City, I cannot even imagine an encounter going that way especially with the strict gun laws here and routine stop/ID policies that are rigorously practiced. I won't even tell you how that would have ended here!!!!

StopTheIgnorance @ 7/30/2011 4:30 PM

I'm always amazed at just how little LEO's know about the very Constitution that they swore to uphold, and how uneducated they are on the very laws they're supposed to enforce. Any California LEO who detains a citizen Open Carrying, without RS, for anything longer than checking to see if the weapon is loaded, is subject to numerous 1983 violations. Unless you run into an Open Carry citizen dumb enough to authorize it or submit to requests or unlawful commands: running SN, felony checks, handcuffing under the guise of "officer safety", etc. are all civil rights violations. Simple Google searches for these events will produce plenty of case law on this subject.

cowop: Your irrational fears are just that, IRRATIONAL, and disproven by facts. The day Sherrif's actually give law abiding citizens CCW's will be the day you see OC start to diminish. Unfortunately CA is a "May" issue state instead of a "Shall" issue state. LEO's lives are no more important than the rest of us, and since you can't be at all places at all times, WE THE PEOPLE have a right to protect ourselves. And no, there is no Constitutional right for anyone to "feel safe".

canadianblueandgold @ 8/7/2011 9:11 PM

Stories like this raise the hair on my neck! Up north we have no such animal as open carry, or even concealed for that matter. For us north of the 49th seeing any gun on the street is bad news.

Rob @ 8/15/2011 11:42 PM

One is legally obligated to identify themselves.

Even though we have laws that allow for us to open carry, LEOs have the right to verify all is in order to ensure public safety.

I would have run this guy for warrants and if all was well, cut him loose.

Simon @ 8/19/2011 1:40 AM

Idiot!!! California does not need open carry for this reason. Some criminal could attack time and take his gun. If they can take it away from cops this guy would be toast...

sonny @ 10/22/2011 8:08 AM

but we don't no if he was this nice or if the video about the dirty cop made him this nice.i will give him the benefit that he is a good cop.

jo @ 11/24/2011 1:07 PM

I have no idea how any of you gun-nazi are americans or (if L.E.) sworn to defend the constitution!! You blow my mind and disgust me! People like you are a true threat to our democracy and individual freedom. If you decide that the freedoms here are not worth the risk, then there are 196 countries in the world to choose from. I here there are booming populations in Russia and Africa. Thoese places are very strict on gun control. You can hand over your destiny to a small group of men who will hold your god given power for you and use it as they see fit, hope your agenda never conflicts with theirs. If you are a P.O. then please dont carry your gun off duty. since guns are illigal to carry open now and ccw holders are not criminals then you should have no reason to carry off duty. This is because now no one will have a gun and so you wont have to face one while off duty.
And for you who want to run the gun and hold him till he gives a name....READ the Fucking Constitution it's pretty important.Take particuallar interest of the fourth amendment in a little thing we Americans call the "bill of rights". I put quotes around it so you can look it up and be sure you dont look up "americans call the bill" since you are not familiar with the bill of rights. second...third, if you have never taken the time to actually read the Declelaration of Independence and the Constituation fully in its entirety you should not only be asahmed of yourself as an american but also consider yourself a failure as a sworn agent of the government due to a foundation that is glarringly flawd.

cj 68 @ 12/14/2011 12:47 PM

- Differentworld - We know how that stop would have ended in New York, 42 shots fired with 19 hits. follow by "yo son, what's your name?"

cj 68 @ 12/14/2011 12:51 PM

It's simple. Yes, it's your right to carry, but it is also you "right and responsibility" to give your name with questioned by LEOs. Especially when you are carrying - open or concealed.

PACop @ 12/14/2011 9:04 PM

Absent reasonable suspicion, in PA I would have violated his rights by taking his weapon. And he wouldn't have to show me ID. And open carrying in PA is not a reason to terry stop someone and neither is jsust a call about a person open carrying. You can mere encounter them of course like anyone else. And no, I'm not an open carry person. I'm a police officer.

1911dutywpn @ 12/29/2011 5:38 PM

I believe that there should have been alot more investigation done with this young man. I work in rural oregon and deal with constatutionalist ideals daily. I still want to know if he is a felon or not and run the weapon. I would have handled it a little bit differantly even though I believe in open carry. But, the officer was very profesional in the way he approached the situation.

Steve E @ 1/28/2012 10:00 PM

BAD STOP !!!!! "If" there was no dispatch call and / or no citizen complaint then it is WRONG. Before Jan 1 in CA the citizen was perfectly legal and there was no PC for harassment and detainment no matter how polite the cop was it is still a violation of law and Constitution this was illegal and UN-constitutional , a violation of the citizens rights.

OFFICER: Stop Sir I want to see what You are doing
CITIZEN: I am walking minding my own peaceful business, why are You stopping me .
OFFICER: because Your black and wearing a red bandana in an white neighborhood , and there are a lot of black people up to no good and I rarely see any blacks in this part of town so I need to see if You 'intend' to be up to no good with your red bandanna !

See what I mean, it starts out innocent and good because the cop has GOOD intentions but still breaks the law, and Constitution

The citizen walks away 'thinking' the cop is Mr nice guy when he jerked the citizen around.

German accent > Let me zee za papers for za gun !!!

The road to a Police State is paved with good intentions.

From me a 100% pro cop , pro gun person.

Pete C @ 6/14/2012 8:52 AM

Sorry officers (or if you are) , for your info, this "citizen" has "NO OBLIGATION" none. zero. to tell his name, show any ID or to even show the officer his weapon (loaded or not) unless he was being detained and committed an infraction (which he did not). You better all learn the constitution a bit better.

As for some of your "opinions" , who cares what you "officers" think ? Not me \, its called our "Rights" , I wonder how many of the "bros" that are on these so called TV Specials that show the camera all their weapons have any "training" OH, they do have a lot of traning don't they. I guess us regular citizens just want to feel safe and thank God our fore-fathers thought of this also.

Thank you ..

D @ 12/15/2012 8:34 PM

Appears it was a vehicle stop. (Run the Friggin Plate for ID or at least have it printed out for a lead if & when you get shot using shitty tactics.) Within close combat distance, back to highway, bent over to pick up pen, probably turned his back when leaving. This 22-yr marine cop should spend time at a gun store or with a firearms instructor and learn the various gun releases etc. (Also pretty unsecured manner of handling the handgun/magazine.) Sorry, forget constitution...after you commit to make the stop...protect yourself so you are alive for that lawsuit a coming !

Rod @ 10/19/2015 2:10 AM

WOW! freakin' amazed at the ignorance of LEOs here. No concept of the constitution, state or federal. Not even recognizing what a TERRY stop is. Blows me away.

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