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Police Chiefs Blast Senate Gun Vote As a 'Disgrace'

April 29, 2013  | 

Photo via Irish Philadelphia Photo Essays/Flickr.
Photo via Irish Philadelphia Photo Essays/Flickr.
An association of police chiefs called the U.S. Senate's rejection of gun-control legislation earlier this month "a disgrace" and blamed "the gun lobby" for blocking the measures.

In a statement released Tuesday, the Major City Chiefs Association said several "weak Senators" failed to support expanded background checks and other "common-sense measures." The statement was signed by Charles Ramsay, the group's president and Philadelphia's police commissioner.

On April 17, Senators voted 54-46 on the Manchin-Toomey amendment. The amendment needed 60 votes to move ahead. The legislation would have extended background checks to purchases at gun shows and online retailers. Senators also rejected a new assault weapons ban and magazine capacity limit.

"We looked to the U.S. Senate for courage and leadership on gun violence, to enact reforms that are long overdue," Ramsay wrote. "With 94 % of the public asking for better gun laws, we expected the Senate to do what cops do—protect the public. But a minority of Senators protected themselves instead of the American people. That's a disgrace."

Ramsay said Senators disregarded the wishes of the victims' families from the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

"Showing an unprecedented lack of courage, U.S. Senators defied the will of the American people and voted according to their instructions from the Washington gun lobby," Ramsay wrote. "Much was said about the rights of gun owners, but almost nothing was said about the equal rights of the public to be safe from gun violence."

Tags: Police Chiefs, Gun Control Advocacy, U.S. Congress, Philadelphia PD


Comments (131)

Displaying 1 - 131 of 131

OfficerJason @ 4/29/2013 12:53 PM

Some people never learn...blaming a gun for violence is just plain ignorance. When will people start placing the blame where it belongs...at society. Parents, taking God out of schools. No corporate punishment, our judicial system, reform system and lack of help for the mentally ill. This has been a long time a comin

ConservativeChief @ 4/29/2013 2:06 PM

I couldn't diagree more. I am a Police Chief in the midwest and have spoken to dozens of my fellow chiefs about this issue and none of us supported this. We all took oaths to uphold the Constitution and protect the rights of our citizens. These liberal politcal hacks do not represent the voice of the vast majority of police chiefs everywhere, just the liberal cities that employ the few who are represented in this article. Law abiding citizens are not the problem and they are the only ones this "feel good" legislation will affect.

REH @ 4/29/2013 2:08 PM

As the Chief of a not so major city, I find blaming the gun ridiculous. When are we going to discuss the real causes of crime?

Officer Ryan @ 4/29/2013 2:07 PM

I'm happy this idiot isn't my Chief, with his made up fairy tale statistics. While Sandy Hook was a tragedy, none of the proproposed gun laws would have stopped the attack. Police Chiefs typically do not speak for the people, they speak for the people that hired them (Mayor, City Manager, etc). You want common sense approaches to gun violence? Look at the proposals from Sheriff's Associations. Sheriff's truly speak for the people because they are elected by them. And since when do we pass laws because Sandy Hook survivors ask for them? You don't pass laws based on emotion, you pass them based on reason.

Mark @ 4/29/2013 2:08 PM

Why is it only the Chiefs from up North. What are the Chiefs from the midwest and south have to say. When it comes to a Chief they have been off the street for so long they have forgotten what is really like. If you want to know what will work ask the street level police officers who out there day and night that can see where the problems really are, but nobody seems to want to ask for their opinion because it would probably not go they way they want.

Gene Alvarez @ 4/29/2013 2:09 PM

Well, it could be worst. At least you officer's can carry weapons while on duty.

Us police officer's (838 PC) and investigators (830.3) at the California state hospitals for the criminally insane cannot carry a firearm while on duty vehicle patrol or in the field outside of the fence per policy and law.

We are exposed with the big "POLICE" on our patches and vehicles.

That's are gun law.

Mims @ 4/29/2013 2:09 PM

Because the FBI's background checks did such a solid job on the Boston bombers in preventing that tragedy, it would most certainly prevent further gun violence. We don't need gun control, we need people control. Enforce the laws that are currently on the books and give violators prison time.

jrdonahue @ 4/29/2013 2:10 PM

These chiefs are busy flapping their lips, but haven't had their fat backsides in a patrol car in many, many years. They haven't got a CLUE about what their officers are facing every day. They are more worried about kissing the backsides of the politicians who hired them than they are concerned about having the backs of the cops who put their lives on the line every day. These chiefs would allow the politicians to take away the rights of law-abiding American citizens and allow the criminals to run wild. Pure B.S. The best approach to what this group advocates: IGNORE IT.

William Heslin Chief of P @ 4/29/2013 2:11 PM

We as Chiefs of Police should be screaming for mandatory sentences for anyone possessing an illegal firearm. Mandatory 15 years no parole. Let's see how that would work instead of closing prisons. NY Safe Act punishes owners of legally owned firearms but illegal possession get very light sentences. I agree with Officer Jason's comments.

David @ 4/29/2013 2:13 PM

I have to ask why there are not impeachment/treason actions brought against not only Chief's like this but also the Senators that plotted to subvert our Constitution and rule of law by supporting such measures. The law abiding citizen much more ought to fear a government who fears them! Sad Day in America. As a Deputy Sheriff for more than 18 years I find these positions frightening to say the least. Thanks to all of your defenders of freedom who can wear your badge with dignity.

Richard Cole @ 4/29/2013 2:13 PM

When you hear the words "common sense blah blah" on anything coming from this administration or the far left "chiefs groups", you better hide your wallet and the constitution, as there is NO common sense in anything they propose! Anyone who disagrees with these clowns are accused of being owned by the "gun lobby", which is just another name for "citizen". In NY, almost all the sheriffs in the state (as well as the vast majority of county legislatures) are against the stupid laws proposed and/or passed (rammed through) by our favorite king Andrew Cuomo. Only the city of NY is truly FOR these laws, that do nothing to keep the public safer. Also, most rank and file Officers are against these laws, too. Only the out of touch elite command weenies want these laws to be passed. SHUT UP already! Crawl back into your offices and hide where you belong.

Embarrassed chief @ 4/29/2013 2:15 PM

They do not speak for me nor any chief I know. Solve crimes put officers on the street and follow through with prosecution of the laws on the books. Would achieve more than any background check would do.

RD @ 4/29/2013 2:16 PM

I have been a police chief for over 12 years and a law enforcement officer for over 35. I could not disagree more with this group of chief's who are more politician than cop. I took an oath to uphold the Constitution, not to subvert it.

martyb @ 4/29/2013 2:20 PM

These are nothing more than a bunch of Liberal Political Hacks in policeman's uniforms.

Bob @ 4/29/2013 2:20 PM

I have been in Law enforcement for 34 years...city police department...county police department and now.still an active sheriff deputy...could not disagree more with the police chiefs....they do not now or ever have represented the rank and file line or street officer. I think what the senate did was very courageous. Its not the honest people we need to regulate, we need to have the current laws enforced . The guns are not the bad guys here..

Fed Cop @ 4/29/2013 2:23 PM

You have to remeber, a good number of these Chiefs are in office at the pleasure of their mayors or City Counsel. If they say the wrong thing to the media, they'll lose their jobs. These Chiefs are directed to say what they say. They don't ask Sheriffs who've been elected what they think. The media will get the wrong answer

Mike @ 4/29/2013 2:23 PM

I expected this kind of crap from those fat ass Deskdrivers who owe their cushy, safe, indoor jobs to their chain shakers, the Liberal Mayors of America. In my entire career, and the seventeen years since I retired, I've NEVER met a street Officer who agrees with the BS spewed out by the Political hacks who disgrace the title of Chief Of Police by siding with those left wing politicians who lie, cheat, and steal to keep their political power.

Deputy Bob @ 4/29/2013 2:23 PM

it appears that most Chiefs of Police are considerably more rational that the moron representing Major City Chiefs of Police. Most street cops I know share the feelings that have been expressed here.

Chicago Sam @ 4/29/2013 2:25 PM

That's Charles Ramsey, a carpet-bagger from Chicago who takes the line put out by Mayor Rahm Emanuel and Governor Pat Quinn who have kept Illinois as the only state without a Concealed Carry Law. They don't give a darn about the Constitution, it's in their way. They don't care about the people; the people are just there to serve and pay for everything.

Michael Tussey @ 4/29/2013 2:26 PM

Please understand that these chiefs do not speak for the vast majority of chiefs. I am currently a chief and have over 30 years of experience. Studies clearly indicate that cities with the "toughest" gun law are in most cases less safe than those with concealed carry. Not to mention that citizens have constitutional rights that are to be protected and cherished. Making law abiding citizens into paper criminals for a warped political agenda only whitewashes the real problem. Until we get serious about mental health and TREATMENT, we will continue to suffer these terrible events.

2AD Tanker @ 4/29/2013 2:26 PM

Take a look at the survey that Policeone conducted - there in lies the true facts of the opinions of police officers.

Mike @ 4/29/2013 2:27 PM

I agree with every other posting so far....these Chiefs taking this stand are the "DISGRACE" to law enforcement everywhere. Looks like these guys haven't walked past a jelly filled doughnut that they haven't gobbled down....Hey Chief's...how about showing some pride in yourselves and your depatment and at least try to look competent! You guys sicken me with your overweight and out of shape butts up there sounding like crying school children. Until you can be there to assist on the aprehension of a subject after a 100 yard foot pursuit shut your mouths! Have some self dignity and support our Constitution...thats what you took an oath to do!

colcbp @ 4/29/2013 2:28 PM

I am sick and tired of lies and 1/4 truths. I am from Colorado, own shotguns, rifles and one handgun and have hunted as often as my military career and public safety work allowed. I for one find it impossible to believe the NRA any longer as they have become far, far too radical and spouted lies (this is first step to national registry...how many first steps can one have anyway... this is the same pap they said years ago.) I want to know what kind of qualified shooters and hunters we have in this country anyway who need to have a weapon of war and multiple 30 round mags sitting in near-autofire weapons, to go out and get their annual quota of one deer. I can understand how officers of mine under fire can empty a 13 round clip from a handgun and score no hits, but how can somebody supposedly a true sportsman claim they need to hunt with a weapon that turns a deer from food to mush to ruined to eat?

capnyos @ 4/29/2013 2:28 PM

Just goes to further show how liberal and out of touch the IACP really is. You didn't name IACP, but it wasn't hard to infer....

Bill @ 4/29/2013 2:28 PM

These inner city police chief's must take stupid pills after they get promoted to the position. All they become is a political spokesperson for the mayor, and their Socialist Democratic parties. Look at every one of them who talks this nonsense. All of them are members of DEMOCRATIC administrations.

TreavWarner @ 4/29/2013 2:30 PM

Has anyone told the bozo chief in Philly that Cops in general will NEVER support gun legislation, especially anything supported by this socialist whitehouse.

Small Town Chief @ 4/29/2013 2:31 PM

While 'Major City' Chiefs call for more gun control and more restrictions on the law abiding public, small town chiefs and rural sheriffs are standing up for the public they service. Two different surveys of police officers, deputies, sergeants and department heads (chiefs and sheriffs) showed an overwhelming response opposing the restriction of gun ownership by law abiding citizens. These same surveys showed that the majority of officers surveyed believed the best deterrent to crime was gun ownership. Chicago is a prime example of how strict gun control does not work.

Chief Ramsay touts that ‘94% of the public’ was asking for better gun laws, but when senators were asked the phone calls they received were 7 pro-second amendment calls to every 1 pro-gun control call. This mythical 90-94% number that is being thrown around has no basis. The claim that the majority of NRA members support ‘universal’ background checks is unfounded as well. The NRA has never shared its list of member with anyone, and therefore it would be impossible to poll those members accurately.

If there was such support for strict gun control laws then why are so many states passing laws to counter the Federal Government overstepping its authority? Maybe these states have a better feel for the citizens of their states, instead of being swayed only by ‘Major City’ chiefs and politicians?

Doug @ 4/29/2013 2:32 PM

well, that's the big city chiefs talking like they have been told, taught or paid to. If they want to keep their jobs. Those Chief's, such as myself, who still take calls, do NOT AGREE with those political shills.

LTN @ 4/29/2013 2:32 PM

The IACP is the disgrace. No gun legislation will ever stop a determined criminal.

Sheriff Wayne Rausch @ 4/29/2013 2:33 PM

Typical east coast rhetoric from ultra liberal police chiefs. I'm ashamed of that mentality, as I have spent the past 28 years in law enforcement. Figure this one out you wind bags: The senators voted no because their constituency demanded it..the voters don't want it. Neither do over 90% of the rank and file! Blaming gun show loopholes for the violence problem in America is like blaming America's drug problem on family members who share their prescription medications!

H.L. Callaway @ 4/29/2013 2:33 PM

This man nor his organization speaks for this 33 year veteran police officer. I took an oath to defend the US Constituion which is is the law of the land and how dare this man and his cronies defy that law and attempt to assurp it by using political rhetoric. Mr. Ramsay's statement of "94% of the public asking for better gun laws" is a highly inflated number and only serves to create a distorted perception of reality which by the way is what Mr. Obama is all about. Mr. Obama's attempts for a total gun ban has very little to do with saving the lives of children and more to do with his socialist agenda to disarm the American Citizen in preparation for total government take over.

mike @ 4/29/2013 2:37 PM

Hey 'colcbp'...I don't use my AR 15 or M4 with my stash of 30 round mags for hunting....I use my 30-o6. My AR is for the bad guy who enters my house to commit evil against me or my family and it is my Constitutional right to be able to defend myself and family with as many rounds as I want! I wondered how Colorado went to POT so fast but sounds like the state is filling up with libs. Too bad.

Steve @ 4/29/2013 2:39 PM

capnyos, Ramsey does not represent or speak for the IACP. He is representing a group of "Major City Chiefs". The IACP has a president and its not him. you can find the IACP position here:http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&issue_id=22013&category_ID=5. Dont lump all us Chiefs in with this guy please.

John Phillippy @ 4/29/2013 2:40 PM

I am the Chief of a small town after working at a larger Department for a 25 years. When did the vocal minority start speaking for all of us. If we address things like putting criminals in jail and rebuilding family values etc. and the "gun problem" still exists maybe then we could talk about violating 2nd amendment rights.

Jim Van Gorder @ 4/29/2013 2:40 PM

If this was from the International Chiefs of Police, that group has never, and will never, speak for the rank and file officer. They are nothing more than a liberal mouthpiece. It is bad enough that we have to hear this drivel from weak kneed, limp wristed politicians without hearing it from "leaders" in our profession. These morons are more concerned about their careers and advancement than the officers who work under their stupidity.

Cameron @ 4/29/2013 2:40 PM

If I'm not mistaken it is our large urban centers where the majority of our violent crime takes place. This is a failure of that, often liberal, "government can fix anything" mentality, system and thought process. Hold people accountable for criminal behavior no matter how many underinformed registered voters are arrested. No, your community organizer types will not like it and its not good politics. It's just the right thing to do. Guys... You and those who put you in place are failures. It's not the guns! It's not people who are active in thier community for good. The "gun lobby" are people with rights who support personal responsibility, the Constitution and the right to defend themselves.

Sam Coulsey @ 4/29/2013 2:46 PM

Those "weak senators" obviously weren't willing to disregard the PEOPLE who elected them! The chiefs of major cities need to come back to earth and stop throwing their weight around where it shouldn't be thrown!

Anthony B @ 4/29/2013 2:47 PM

This clown shouldn't even be referred to as a chief. He obviously doesn't speak for the LE community nor does he understand the document he swore to protect..the constitution.

Dave S. @ 4/29/2013 2:53 PM

I wnat someone to show me firearms purchased on line.....its against Federal law...must go to a dealer now for delivery WITH A BACKGROUND CHECK...people writing this do not know what they are talking about

D. Cook @ 4/29/2013 2:54 PM

Commissioner Ramsay clearly does not have a grasp of issue. Banning waepons is not the way to address the problem. The United States currently has adequate gun laws on the books. When you restrict law abiding citizens from possessing guns then only the criminals will have them.

Lt. Will Cole @ 4/29/2013 2:57 PM

I can only support what the majority have said. I don't know what planet these guys are from but they are liberals. Read history. The problem is mental health. Change or add laws that will allow officers to seize weapons from those with mental health issues and force them before a judge before they are allowed to recover them. Hold those, who allow anyone with mental health problems to have access to guns, accountable.

Trigger @ 4/29/2013 3:02 PM

Thank you Senators for standing up for the citizens. It is sad when the top brass forget what happens in the trenches. After working the streets for 30 years and now in upper administration it sickens me to watch the political games of those in similar positions. My brothers and sisters on the streets stand tall, there are many in upper ainistration who still believe in what is right.

Ed C @ 4/29/2013 3:04 PM

I feel for Philly have to endure such a liberalist as a Police Commissioner. I also sympathize with the already posted comments by other Police Chiefs don't like being misconscrued as being represented by this Chief. It is clearly apparant that Mr Ramsey is out of touch with reality, the facts and maybe even is helping to push an agenda that is not good for America. Philly should do something about this and show a united front for our rights as Americans and ask the Mayor and city counsel to remove Mr. Ramsey's from his position. If law-abiding citizens do nothing to ensure their own and our rights then America is lost. How about Philly; willing to step up to the plate?

Samuel Jeffers @ 4/29/2013 3:08 PM

The very politicized chiefs are themselves a disgrace. A disgrace to their forces, a disgrace to the country. A disgrace to the officers on the street who are far more clued in than are their clueless ... or dishonest ... bosses.

The IACP has long been a sordid and highly politicized organization, whose main goal is self-aggrandizement and sucking up to liberal politicians.

The Senate, thankfully, acted honorably.

Real World Cop @ 4/29/2013 3:10 PM

That's why the founding fathers created the 2nd amendment. No matter whether the popularity of it comes or goes, it is still a right of a law abiding citizen of the United States of America to keep and bear arms.

therookie @ 4/29/2013 3:15 PM

Funny how most of these Chiefs are in appointed positions in large cities who don't enforce gun laws on the books as it is. Then the prosecutors plea them off or out. How come Sheriff's who are elected throughout the U.S. don't agree with this gun law? Is it because they don't work for a Democrat Obama controlled Mayor? I don't know of many subjects I contacted in my career that had a legal firearm. Usually was stolen at some point.

j706 @ 4/29/2013 3:18 PM

No one really gives a hoot about what the IACP says or thinks. They are so out of touch with reality that it is almost amusing. They are nothing more than puppets on strings for the libtards.

therookie @ 4/29/2013 3:21 PM

How come the big City Chiefs say this. Is it because most of them are in an appointed position by a Democrat Obama controlled Mayor? Elected Sheriff's through-out the U.S. do not support Manchin/Toomey, Feinstein/Schumer bills whatsoever. If the Chiefs would allow their officers to enforce the laws already on the books, if the prosecutors wouldn't plea everything off & out, maybe, just maybe the system would/could work. In my career very seldom did I have a legal weapon used. It was usually always illegal.

therookie @ 4/29/2013 3:24 PM

Sorry all had a brain slip and repeated myself. Watch your 3,6,9, & 12 o'clocks while out there.

bobbymo @ 4/29/2013 3:28 PM

The only "disgrace" is the failure of these (political) chiefs to read and understand the US Constitution they swore to uphold.

Dan Gillam @ 4/29/2013 3:32 PM

Perhaps these Chiefs should read the Constitution that they have SWORN to uphold.
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." Thomas Jefferson - whom I might add is probably rolling over in his grave.

Tom Ret @ 4/29/2013 3:33 PM

colcbp-The second amendment was not a protection for hunting but
against government tyranny. If you are comfortable with a bolt action rifle or other weapon with limited firing capacity trying to defend your home against suspects armed with ak or ar15 rifles that is ok with me, just don't expect anyone else to follow that logic. The bad guys, many of whom are not afraid of the penalty for murder, have not and will not abide by gun laws. So magazine capacity laws and guns that are illegal to possess will not affect them. If you question this fact, I question what you have learned during your law enforcement career. If your criteria is limiting gun ownership to guns never used in war, that very scoped bolt action you have for hunting may not qualify as it could easily be reclassified as a sniper's weapon of war.

I would bet that chief Ramsay mentioned in this article hasn't fired a gun in the last 20 years but he sure pretends to know what is best for the rest of us.

Bruce @ 4/29/2013 3:34 PM

Look at their spokesman, when was he on the street last? Sad. Those pompus asses sit clueless in their offices and have the gall to tell citizens to unarm themselves. In the decade since I retired, I see the management of police departments have changed little. So out of touch with reality. Look at the major cities where the "brass" is under constant fire. (here in Seattle to start, then of course LAPD) Why? Out of touch. They do not understand what the front line is dealing with every day. They play politics rather thank police work. The street cops are more afraid of internal affairs, the stupid plea bargains and the DA allowing them to be attacked on the stand, than they are of some punk with a pistol. Chiefs, stand up against plea bargains that show little more than a slap, support stand up men and women running for district attorney that will make sure criminals , and, (and this is a big one) BACK YOUR OFFICERS! You sound equally as stupid in your propaganda as the NRA does. You should all get together, for a common cause (i.e. protect and serve) and get on the same side.

doug @ 4/29/2013 3:45 PM

Mr Ramsey,
Gun owners ARE the American public so quit being a crybaby.

Phillip George @ 4/29/2013 3:51 PM

The Chief's are boneheads and appointees by the leftist that want to register all guns. They will be a part of the Federal National Police that knocks on your door. Thank God for the Armed Citizen. My son and another teenager was shot and killed by a 15 year old that wanted to know what it was like to kill someone!!! Gun control wouldn't have fixed that. Chapman was convicted of Capital Murder and We are fighting parole again.

Nick @ 4/29/2013 3:54 PM

Also as a Chief of a not-so major city, blaming guns is foolish. I can't say I am against background checks, but lots of opponents think that is just a coverup for a national gun registry, which I would not be in favor of so much. Limiting magazines and banning assault rifles does absolutely nothing but keep them out of the hands of law abiding citizens. No criminal will ever think "gee, I shouldn't kill people with this extended magazine because it is illegal..." Gun control doesn't work - just look at Chicago. We need some regulatory laws which we already have in abundance. When we start giving away our constitutional rights we become exactly what we ran from - a King and his henchmen with no way to defend ourselves. You have the right to keep and bear arms - #2 on the list of highly important stuff back in the day we made this country, the discussion really needs to end there. Start hanging people in the streets for acting a fool with a gun and killing people. Swift justice, with the appeals process in tact is what we need to get back to. That and parenting, the pledge, God, etc.

Reinman @ 4/29/2013 3:58 PM

Police Chief associations are led by politicians with the same liberal mind set of those who claim to represent "95%" of the population. These self proclaimed "experts" sold their souls long ago and not only do NOT represent the views of the street level officer, but do NOT possess the common sense of one either. Their motives are self serving and are more a disgrace than those they desparrage.

Lt. R.H. @ 4/29/2013 4:04 PM

When I began reading this article I was irritated with another "commander" bellowing rediculous comments on behalf of gun control and using the platform of the IACP to validate he's views. I represent four generations of law enforcement, with 35 plus years of service myself. My grandfathers, great grandfather, and son have proudly upheld the Constitution of Our United States and supported the 2nd Amendment as it was written by men, obviously, much smarter than those trying to destroy our way of life. I am proud to be amongst those that have spoken in earlier post in support of our profession.

southern @ 4/29/2013 4:06 PM

Those of us in the IACP need to quit letting this vocal minority be the only voice. I'm tired of the IACP trying to convince the country that all of us want unenforceable, useless gun control laws.

E X Gunn @ 4/29/2013 4:12 PM

Just another indication that police chiefs are hired and subject to politicians and others are not. See the Police One survey of 15,000 street officers showing that 80% disagreed with that position.

ED @ 4/29/2013 4:17 PM

The major city chiefs might as well be a political arm of Obama, Reid and Pelosi. Ramsey was poor as the DC Chief and all he wants is the next job. He is not a real cop and never has. The IACP is so weak politically it is a shame that this group is ruining them. I would bet someone from the Obama administration help write Ramsey's script. If you ever heard him speak, you would have to axt him a question that I bet he could not answer.

LT @ 4/29/2013 4:18 PM

Commissioner Ramsay and the rest of you that are "appointed ...Cops also represent the public and most of us "working" cops believe in the 2nd Amendment. You pencil pushers need to "back off" and take a look around you. You should know by now that guns don't kill people, people kill people. And you should also know that most homicides are done by using small cal. handguns and not the so called "assault" rifle. Your agenda is only to compensate your big fat pay check by siding with the ones that appointed you. Maybe things should change and Police Chiefs and Commissioners should be elected instead of appointed. I think I'll call my congressman and make that suggestion.

Idaho Sheriff @ 4/29/2013 4:19 PM

I am a Sheriff in the State of Idaho. Yes, I know there are a few Sheriffs across the country that support gun control, but that means they do not support the 2nd amendment. On top of 2nd amendment I also want my citizens armed so they can protect themselfs and family. Also our citizens are our third line of defense for our country, right after the military and law enforcement. If you don't think the enemy is on our soil then you have your head in the sand.

Gator37 @ 4/29/2013 4:34 PM

Sounds like a bunch of not to smart Chiefs. Wonder if Chicago's chief has got all boys in the Hood to be background checked or N.Y. or Washington DC.? Not likely.

38 year Leo KY @ 4/29/2013 4:40 PM

The political but kissers are trying to gain more favor with their political boss's. if these so call chiefs of police want something done why rant they not screaming at the top of their lung . Why has the US dept of justice only prosecuted less than four felons out of thousands they have records of . So they want more feel good BAD lawns the wont prosecute either

Lorue @ 4/29/2013 4:41 PM

Commissioner Ramsey is better off to apply himself to the vast crime issues that plague Philadelphia. He was lackluster, at best, as a boss in D.C. and just wants as much facetime as he can get with the media. If his idea of crime reduction is this gun bill, then he lives in a fantasy world. Oh, that's right, he drives a very large desk and has not been on a call for service in 20 years. He absolutely lives in a fantasy world. He believes "if it works on paper, it works for me". To bad that does not cut it here in the real world. Ramsey should just quit and run for the Senate. He wants to talk the talk, now go ahead and walk the walk. Let the Policemen do the Police work and you can run off and join the Circus.

Lee @ 4/29/2013 4:56 PM

First of all, no disrespect to any chief that works and still does the duties of a peace officer. Most chiefs are no longer peace officers, they are politicians who have to please city councils, mayors, city managers, commissioners etc. if they want to keep their jobs. And why is it when the media reports what the chiefs (IACP) have to say it is from liberal cities that have unrealistic ideas about what is actually needed to control crime. I'm sorry for them but just because the families of the victims of Sandy Hook wanted gun control does not make it right or what the majority of the United States wanted.

Allen Muma @ 4/29/2013 4:56 PM

I am a police chief and I didn't endorse this rubbish! Notice it says "Major City Chief's", of which I am not a member and never desire to be. According to UCR data, if we eliminated urban areas with a population of over 200,000, we would have some of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Grog @ 4/29/2013 4:57 PM

The "Chiefs" are just politicians with badges. When is the last time any of them made an actual arrest or did actual police work? They are nothing but politicians in uniform, and don't speak for any of us real cops. Why does the media even pay attention to them? Because gun control fits into the media agenda. The MSM wants gun control soooooo bad... but when they get it, do they know what is going to happen? No more 2ndA equals no more 1st A. They are shooting themselves in the foot. I hope we don't, but I think we shall see an uprising, soon...

Capt. Crunch @ 4/29/2013 5:07 PM

The sad part is that no one sees the elephant in the room.

CT LEO RET @ 4/29/2013 5:08 PM

These guys with the scrambled eggs on there hats need to get out from behind their desks, and get back out on the streets!!!!!!!!!!!!! They don't have a clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob Stone @ 4/29/2013 5:17 PM

All your major city chiefs are political hacks and most have very little street experience or none. These chiefs do not speak for the rank and file officers or the public they truly cannot protect due to the level of criminal activity or what's coming in the future. People need to be able to protect themselves, self preservation. That's the second amendment,

Tom @ 4/29/2013 5:27 PM

I'm a cop and do not support any more gun laws...Chief Ramsey is wrong.

Tom @ 4/29/2013 5:30 PM

No more stupid and feel-good laws...Chief Ramsey is out of touch and ignorant of the facts......lets pass a law that no law enforcement officer can carry a firearm off duty or after retirement and you will see an interesting shift.....

Michael Birmingham @ 4/29/2013 5:42 PM

This group is just a bunch of political hacks! They have forgotten their oath to the Constitution. Retired now, 30 years service in Iowa, 12 as a chief, I will never support something so unconstitutional. They are power hungry idiots...or just morons. Like all Washington they are totally out of contact with real people. I fear for our nation and freedoms.

Jack Betz @ 4/29/2013 6:08 PM

Chief Ramsey, you should be ashamed of yourself. You might think back to the day you first put on your sheild. If you were like most of us, you took an oath to defend the U.S. Constitution. You might read it again. or was that just some words you said to get a job.

njmotorcop @ 4/29/2013 6:09 PM

Why is it that every time the USA and the Constitution wins these corrupt and incompetent political hacks have to come out and make us all look as stupid, self-serving, and power hungry as they are?

Dave @ 4/29/2013 6:16 PM

It is apparent that Mr. Ramsey (his comments negate him the respected title of Chief) is simply being a good little puppet protecting his job by saying everything the mayor tells him to say.

Ima Leprechaun @ 4/29/2013 6:22 PM

The vast majority of bloggers here agree the kid with the AK-47 was well within his second amendment rights when he shot at officers in Central Florida. Its not gun makers fault for putting a military automatic rifle in the hands of a whacked out underage kid. Geez, It's everybody's right to shoot at the police with any military style weapon they can get. Bazooka is more than a bubble gum its a weapon of choice and a right to bear arms. As for the people on here that think they know what the second amendment says it would help if you actually read it because there are no personal rights in the second amendment. You people are nuts!

Jimmy @ 4/29/2013 6:29 PM

They threw him out of Chicago and DC both with Murder rates going though the roof and now he is in Philly he was a waste in both cities now Philly is stuck with him.

Kelly @ 4/29/2013 6:32 PM

Really! 94% of the public wanting stricter gun laws? Chief Ramsey, the seized marijuana is evidence, not your personal stash! And as for the statement that police officers wanted the bill to get passed, not a single one of my brothers or sisters I've talked to, and there are many, wanted this bill! How a few "elected officials" (I refuse to call them law enforcement officers) can claim they speak for the entire profession, and then state an opinion that is the direct opposite of the majority of that profession should be criminal! If you want to make a name for yourself "politically" please have the decency to take off the uniform and stop touting your agenda as if it was handed down by the All Mighty and blessed by his Disciples! I'll tell what is a disgrace Ramsey, is you and your Cronies of the Big City Chiefs Association!

Ed @ 4/29/2013 6:33 PM

You are absolutely right Jimmy ... incompetent political puppet !!!!!!

Ron Martinelli @ 4/29/2013 6:55 PM

Ever notice how all of the police chiefs who are pro gun control have the MOST restrictive gun laws in their cities/states (not even including federal laws against criminal possessing/using firearms), yet they have the HIGHEST number of gun crimes and the LEAST numbers of actual prosecutions for "gun crimes?" What??!!!

Do you think that there just might be a CORRELATION there, you knuck**heads.

I just returned from Chicago where I had to examine a crime scene in high-crime Southside Chicago and just in ONE night they had 8 shootings and one 15 yr old shot to death. Chicago has among the STRICTEST gun control laws in the nation and has one of the LOWEST stats on gun related crime prosecutions in the U.S.

Geezus, we can't put too many criminals in prison for gun-related crimes. They'll fill up too fast and our state is going bankrupt. Wow! What an attitude. Geeze, the feds can't do that either because we have "sefrustration." #$%$#@!! Let's just restrict the law abiding citizen's ability to own guns, protect their homes and carry concealed to protect themselves. What a country. All the chiefs in this article need to be the victims of a "drive-by slapping."

Dr. Ron Martinelli
Forensic Criminologist
Temecula, CA

worth630 @ 4/29/2013 7:19 PM

My email response to the Major Cities Chief's Association:

Sir,

I think the Major Cities Chief's Association should stop playing politics in the area of the 2nd Amendment and the rights of law abiding citizens. All of your chief's know very well that our current gun laws, and those recently voted down, would have done nothing to stop any of the recent mass shootings.

Your Chiefs have spent way too much time being politicians, and not police officers. You know as well as I do a legally armed citizen has a quicker chance at stopping an aggressive criminal with a gun than patrol officers can. The right to self protection and self preservation is God given, not government given. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. The badges you carry, and the oaths you swore to uphold mean nothing to ANY rank and file police officer. I would take any legally armed citizen as my back-up to any of your chiefs, any day.

John @ 4/29/2013 7:31 PM

Only "political" cops favor gun control. I've talked to REAL cops and they told me when they stop someone AND they see that its a CCW holder, a great weight is lifted approaching the car. They know that a real criminal wouldn't go through the checks & fees to get a permit.

Frank retired chief @ 4/29/2013 7:45 PM

76 out of how many thousands of police chiefs in the US and 7 other countries don't represent the police chiefs in the US. If these chiefs did their jobs they wouldn't have the problems they have. How ridiculous to even mention such a small group of chief. I am a 35 year police veteran and retired chief, they don't represent my views.

JM @ 4/29/2013 8:19 PM

Politics and Chief of Police go hand in hand. I am at 34+ years on the job, still on the streets & have yet to see any of these "laws" do what they are touted to do. To bad these idiots get national attention...

And a salute to the Chiefs & Sheriffs who do not support this buffonery.

Robert Domin @ 4/29/2013 8:23 PM

This particular Chief likes to see his out of shape self on TV so that he can blame the overweight appearance to being on television. He has a right to his opinion, but other than the liberal politicians who have driven the values of our society down the tubes, law enforcement officers do not agree with him. My Fed. buddies complain at how the Administrative policies which come down from Obama's White House keep them from doing law enforcement in an unbiased aggressive manner. There is supposed to be a separation of powers. Eric Holder, Janet Napolitano and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton are examples of political ideologies preceding doing what is right. Law Enforcement officers stand firm in the current onslaught of an attempt to change the narrative of what it means to be a Citizen of the US. Stay safe my brothers and sisters.

Jeff Nash @ 4/29/2013 8:43 PM

With the exception of a couple postings, I believe the White House as well as the branches of government should be sent a copy of this article and responses!!! I've been out of law enforcement for about 20 years now. I'm amazed how the government, the (Big City) Chief's and the left wing celebrities want to take guns and gun rights away from law abiding citizens. I'd be very interested to know how many of the these people are willing to give up their guns or armed body guards... I'd say as soon as they give up their guns and armed body guards, (including the President), that will be the time you can come tell me and all the other law abiding citizens of this country to give up our guns and gun rights. I can tell you, it will be snowing in hell before that will ever happen!!!!

George @ 4/29/2013 9:16 PM

I think these so-called Chiefs are a disgrace. They only support this so they can get more grant money promised to them by Obama.

amishpig @ 4/29/2013 10:17 PM

If you pan down on the picture of the Philadelphia PD's Chief in the story you might see that Mayor Nutter's hand is up the Chief's rear end and making his lips move. Big city Chiefs are APPOINTED and must hold the views of those who do the appointing or risk being canned.

Khan @ 4/30/2013 2:24 AM

Well, at least, now the citizens in those "Major Cities" know which side the leaders of the "serve and protect" folks will be on when the balloon goes up.

uslawman1983 @ 4/30/2013 3:25 AM

The disgrace are the police chiefs, they're no longer cops anymore. And the 90% they keeping quoting is bogus, it was an MSNBC - Marist poll taken in 6 blue states that Obama won in the 2012 election. That's as skewed as it gets.

Charles Beckom @ 4/30/2013 5:10 AM

Fat boy should quit playing politics and start learning how to be a Chief of police. Socialist loves this guy.

W Harman @ 4/30/2013 5:14 AM

If they would have just left it at background checks then it would have passed!!! The greedy politicians added all the BS and that's why the vote failed! I personally think that the Chief's no better than what they are saying and they are a bunch of Hypocrites doing the same thing they are blaming the politicians for-no room for politics in law enforcement!!!!

W Harman @ 4/30/2013 5:20 AM

By the way I am a member of the IACP until I can get in touch with them today to cancel my membership and If we all cancel our membership and stand up for what we believe in it will send them a huge message "They should not speak for the few, but ask us and then decide what to do"

Tom Verburg @ 4/30/2013 5:28 AM

The misinformation machine has now got the voice of some of the major city police chiefs. As a small town chief, I am not as politically motivated. As Ray Kelly said a while back on a CBS interview. It was not the rifles that they had the problems with, but the handguns. Now I would support stricter background checks, under one condition. We get all of the wingnuts, bi-polar, and other assorted mental/emotional folks into this system. Afterall it isn't the "normal" folks committing these mass shootings, it is the wingnuts. The problem is that the same folks wanting the gun laws are the ones most worried about protecting these "medical" records. Wake up and get these into the system, then I could support more widespread background checks. I have been at this for 36 years and most of the law enforcement officers I know don't support further gun control, they would like to see more criminal control. Thanks

Fran @ 4/30/2013 6:40 AM

I do not know who these Police Chiefs are, or what agencies they represent, but I can tell you that they do not represent me, my fellow law enforcement officers, my agency, or the majority of American law enforcement officers. I have been a law enforcement officer for 27 years, and most of the police officers I know are NRA members and supporters of the Second Amendment and lawful gun ownership. Many Sheriffs and Police Chiefs have already publically stated that they will not support any attempts to ban or confiscate guns in their jurisdictions. The Police Chiefs in this article, who oppose the recent Senate vote, are the real disgrace. The American people have spoken, and we do not want any more “feel good about yourselves”, “knee jerk reaction”, and “do nothing to stop crime” gun laws. How does passing more laws that punish honest, hardworking, law abiding gun owners, while doing absolutely nothing to stop or punish the criminals, make us any safer? These Police Chiefs probably also believe that guns are evil, that criminals will obey gun laws, and that “gun free zones” actually work. These zones do nothing except tell the criminals where the unarmed victims are. If these Police Chiefs really want to help curb gun violence, then they need to support the Second Amendment, enforce all of the existing laws, listen to their officers, and make criminals serve their full sentences. This would be a step in the right direction.

James Burson @ 4/30/2013 6:43 AM

Ramsay and Major cities police chiefs you are weak and do not speak for the general population and police...Asst/Chief of Police

RReeves @ 4/30/2013 6:48 AM

I certainly DO NOT AGREE with Chief's, politions and anyone else that tear down the constitution we swore to uphold and defend!!! What ARE they THINKING! I have been a chief for 32 years, and in that time I have found it to be very true that a "CRIMINAL" will 'STEAL" weapons and use them! Wow! What a in your face discovery that is! Criminals commit crimes, they "steal, kill, and destroy" which means if we pass stricter gun laws and disarm innocent citizens, criminals will continue their "MO" and continue to steal weapons and use them against unarmed "innocents!" Of course this all comes down to the money problem; can't afford to keep them in prisons and jails so they are turned loose to once again prey on "innocents!" Just think about this, We build more prisons, jails and hire more people to guard them. Two birds with one stone, the criminals are off the streets and employment goes up, contractors hire and use employees to build the jails and pens, ecomonic upswing! Where are our priorities!? ENFORCE the laws that exist now! Like I heard it said earlier in the week... Last time we looked MURDER was against the law, murder of anyone, and prison sentences and death penalities in some states are enforced...that sure hasn't stopped the criminals, has it!? That's why we have a job! Criminals will always be out there no matter what! YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!' Whether it's the criminal element, or the blasted liberal chief's, or politions!!!!! PERIOD!

ChiefH @ 4/30/2013 6:52 AM

The problem with the "Big City" chiefs is that they are more concerned with their personal political appointments than they are upholding the Constitution of the United States. Even they aren't really stupid enough to think that diminishing citizen rights is going to have any impact on the issue. As an officer, and a police chief who has served several cities over the course of 39 years, I can confidently proclaim that, like Sheriffs, the overwhelming majority of police chiefs would oppose additional infringements on ANY constitutional rights of citizens. Like the IACP, big city chiefs have been co-opted by liberal political causes. That's truly sad!

Phil Smith @ 4/30/2013 6:54 AM

I find the headline to this article misleading. It first appears that the IACP or another leading Chief of Police Association supported the legislation and "blasted" the Senate. For the first time, parties aside, a vote represented the citizens they serve. It is a small number of Police Chiefs like these, who get the headline. I have served for 34 years in one of the most dangersous cities in this country, gun control is not the problem. This cannot be the postion of the IACP or like others, my membership will be discontinued.

Hector Alcazar Jr @ 4/30/2013 7:02 AM

Their vote is an affirmation of the Constitution. What is a shame is tha any cop with more than 1 year on the job would believe/say that law breaking criminals would be hindered by wait for it, wait for it, ANOTHER LAW!!! With my 17 years on the job I couldn't disagree more.

Roger Connor @ 4/30/2013 7:07 AM

Police Chiefs should avoid politics...period!

James @ 4/30/2013 8:01 AM

We tend to forget Police Chiefs are typically appointed political hacks (not all) who do the bidding of those who appoint them. They are for the most part nothing more than political lap dogs. Yes there are a "few" exceptions who have enough courage to break ranks with greedy politicians, but they are few in number.
Maybe it is time to elect the Police Chiefs as opposed to allowing a corrupt politician appoint them.
Few officers as a whole are anti gun, most of those who work the streets understand that we can not be there for everyone, and the streets are safer when victims can defend themselves with deadly force. Frankly advanced firearms training should be free or very low cost to those who wish to carry and posses firearms to ensure a safer potential. Imagine most of the victims being trained in self defense... There would be fewer criminals/crimes either by attrition or career choice changes do to the inherent danger of their chosen path. Statistics already prove this to be the case.

Chief P @ 4/30/2013 8:14 AM

Chief Ramsay,

I challenge you sir to provide any factual data that would support the belief that any more fire arm regulations would help to prevent gun violence in any way shape or form. If you are so bent on further stripping the constitutional rights of American citizens and the liberties that are inherited to American citizens at birth please provide statistics from Philadelphia on how the very strict gun laws and tons of “gun free” zones have had a positive impact on the violence that plagues the city you are in charge of protecting.

These gun restrictions and further eroding of the constitution only affect law abiding citizens. It is a proven fact and the information is easy to find that areas in the US that have more freedoms for the citizens have much lower gun violence or violence in general. Please pull your head out of politics and get back to protecting and serving the people you swore to as well as the constitution. You are a disgrace to law enforcement and America Chief Ramsay. From another chief in this business.

Chfdave @ 4/30/2013 8:27 AM

40 years of serving and the past 10 or so have seen some real radical changes. When will they learn that any laws, rules, or regulations are only good for the law-abiding citizens? Few officers ever deal with that majority group. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS! Bring back appropriate punishments for the CRIMINAL. I buy a gun and wait three days or even a week if need be. Guess what the Criminal does when he wants a gun? Probably shoots his mother or someone and steals there’s? More Prisons, more death sentences carried out, and a whole lot less of changing the world and laws to please the minority population of liberals. Laws, rules and regulations have no meaning or effect on those who don’t believe in or respect them.

tony @ 4/30/2013 8:42 AM

Don't kid yourself. The police can't always protect the public. That is pure BS. The minority senators did the right thing in voting against the measure. None of what these liberals are proposing would have changed much. Instead of restricting gun ownership, maybe some thought should be given to expanding gun ownership and then the individuals could do what the police have not been able to do, that is protect the public. There were 230 incidents of people protecting themselves using a firearm last year, but you don't see that printed very often. Stop hiding from the truth.

krisnlc @ 4/30/2013 9:09 AM

Wow, but i guess i should not be surprised that so many people do not wish to use common sense gun control. Why is that? What is wrong with the insistance of background checks before you buy guys for anyone?? that should not even be a consideration in any argument. The size of clips, well that just means you have more rounds to do more damage with...but does 30 round clips really make much more difference than 10 or 20 round clips, not in the hands of a person that really knows how to use a weapon and does not panic at the time..so for me that really does not make a bit of difference in the gun violence... but background checks, come on man...that is totally common sense response for anyone wanting a gun. Republicans are tripping over themselves to make sure illegals "immigrants" do not get an ID to get into the country...but are okay if the same illegal immgrant who did get into the country might get his hands on a gun because of no background check..... tony, this law does not restrict gun control execpt for those that should not own guns..this law actually allows the law abiding and stable citizen to purchase a gun. I am also amazed at how many people in this blog have chastised this chief including other chiefs... another question... which is actually an 'oxymoron' cunundrum.... why is it that the police officers of this country who are in the greatest danger of being killed by a knuckle head with a weapon are the ones who fight common sense gun control the most? I ask the question but already know the jarbled sensed answer that will be rationalized into my question...just read 90% of the blogs before mine on this page..., "common sense is common sense... know who buys the weapons. I own five weapons...I am a law abiding citizen, former marine, in law enforcement... I do not have anything to fear by a background check and i am not planning on killing a bunch of people because of every day stresses.

Rob @ 4/30/2013 9:22 AM

More OBAMA propaganda to push his agenda of CONTROL! Total Bullsh*t!! Until this country goes back to what made it great, we will continue to deteriorate and kill ourselves. You can't save lives by making criminals out of law abiding citizens and as the old saying goes: YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!

oneTNcop @ 4/30/2013 10:22 AM

colcbp, the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution guarantees us the right to keep and bear arms. It does not say, "Only Hunting Rifles". Just because you don't see a need to possess an AR15, DS58, SCAR, etc... doesn't mean that some of us don't get just as much enjoyment out of shooting those kinds of firearms as you do out of shooting your deer rifle. As for the NRA lying, how can a statement of opinion be a lie? Want the lie? Try this one on for size, "94% of Americans support expanded background checks". What they fail to tell everyone is that poll sampled just a little over 1,000 people. Last time I checked there were more than 200 million of us in this country, and approximately 80 million of us own firearms. I talk to a lot of people about this topic, and while almost everyone universially agrees something needs to be done, very few people think the answer is taking any type of firearm out of the hands of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. People like you, who are willing to relinquish their Constitutional rights just so they can tell themselves the world is a safer place make me sick.

oneTNcop @ 4/30/2013 10:34 AM

krisnlc, the common sense answer to your question as to why the rank and file don't see a need for more gun laws? Because we as rank and file officer don't get into shootouts with law abiding citizens. The background check laws already on the books have not stopped any of these crimes, dating back to Columbine. We aren't seeing guns that were illegally purchased or stolen to do these things, we are seeing guns that were purchased and a background check passed. In most every one of these instances there were warning signs that were ignored, many times by the very same liberal section of our society that doesn't want to hurt anyone's feeling by calling them crazy so let's all give up our rights crowd. I have, on MANY occassions, dropped one of these very dangerous individuals off at an ER for a mental eval only to have them cut loose before I can get the paperwork completed. One, a former SWAT officer, was making threats to harm herself and others, had an arsenal (which we took), and then later went and bought additional guns. It wasn't until I got an ATF buddy involved who charged her with lying on the background check form that she was stopped. The mental health professionals were willing to let her continue walking the streets despite MANY warnings from the police of the dangers. It took talking to a police friendly ER doc to get her committed against the wishes of mental health. Fix that and you will take a huge step towards fixing these problems. Until then, we don't need any additional gun laws.

Tom Ret @ 4/30/2013 10:37 AM

krisnic-Do you not know that prosecutions for violations of form 4473
are near a statistical zero? Let me quote Vice President Biden for you-
"We don't have the time to prosecute gun buyers who lie on the background checks". So common sense is not to create more laws when the existing ones are not enforced. By the way, there are a lot of folks on this blog with prior military and police experience which span 3 decades.

John T @ 4/30/2013 2:17 PM

Right on James. C

Chief's are always the worst as a whole. It is completely a political position, like Sheriff. Unlike sheriff though, there is absolutely ZERO accountability to the general public. This makes chief of police a total lackey position, a middle management creep. He's a pure yes man for politicians, if he want's to climb that ladder and then keep his job. That is, unless he has very extraordinarily upstanding bosses. Something that is a rare thing in government and increasingly rarer by the day. It is beyond time to give the public the option to vote for chiefs. It is a political position and we all know it.

John Melton @ 4/30/2013 3:03 PM

Police chiefs are not political leaders and should not opin on political matters in an offifial copacity. All this demonstrats is what alot, if not most, people in this country suspect, and that is the police in this country are all for laws enabling them to control the populace. This same chief would probably be equally disappointed if the senate had voted down legislation giving law enforcement a key to everyone's homes and the right to enter all homes for any reason at any time. This police chief.......... SUCKS.

Ironbar @ 4/30/2013 3:48 PM

Dear Major City Chiefs Association,

Kindly go fuck yourselves.

Sincerely,
The Rest of America

Mike Bunkermeister Creek @ 4/30/2013 4:01 PM

The USA has added restrictions to the right to keep and bear arms since the 1930's and none of them have significantly reduced crime. It's time to start repealing some of these laws rather than add to them. Mike Bunkermeister Creek

searcher5 @ 4/30/2013 4:14 PM

To Mr. Leprechaun, you show your ignorance of the law all the way around. The only way you could have a fully automatic Ak47, is to take it from a battlefield outside of the U.S. as it is against federal law to import, period. As for your reference to a bazooka? Pretty old weapon, so your comic books aren't up to date either. IF you read the 2nd amendment, make sure you have the original version with the comma's in place, so you can tell what it actually says.

Ima Leprechaun @ 4/29/2013 6:22 PM

The vast majority of bloggers here agree the kid with the AK-47 was well within his second amendment rights when he shot at officers in Central Florida. Its not gun makers fault for putting a military automatic rifle in the hands of a whacked out underage kid. Geez, It's everybody's right to shoot at the police with any military style weapon they can get. Bazooka is more than a bubble gum its a weapon of choice and a right to bear arms. As for the people on here that think they know what the second amendment says it would help if you actually read it because there are no personal rights in the second amendment. You people are nuts!

S. Thomas Acting Chief Of @ 4/30/2013 8:12 PM

I couldn't diagree more. I am a Police Chief in the midwest and have spoken to dozens of my fellow chiefs about this issue and none of us supported this. We all took oaths to uphold the Constitution and protect the rights of our citizens. These liberal politcal hacks do not represent the voice of the vast majority of police chiefs everywhere, just the liberal cities that employ the few who are represented in this article. Law abiding citizens are not the problem and they are the only ones this "feel good" legislation will affect, while 'Major City' Chiefs call for more gun control and more restrictions on the law abiding public, small town chiefs and rural sheriffs are standing up for the public they service. Two different surveys of police officers, deputies, sergeants and department heads (chiefs and sheriffs) showed an overwhelming response opposing the restriction of gun ownership by law abiding citizens. These same surveys showed that the majority of officers surveyed believed the best deterrent to crime was gun ownership. Chicago is a prime example of how strict gun control does not work.

Chief Ramsay touts that ‘94% of the public’ was asking for better gun laws, but when senators were asked the phone calls they received were 7 pro-second amendment calls to every 1 pro-gun control call. This mythical 90-94% number that is being thrown around has no basis. The claim that the majority of NRA members support ‘universal’ background checks is unfounded as well. The NRA has never shared its list of member with anyone, and therefore it would be impossible to poll those members accurately.

If there was such support for strict gun control laws then why are so many states passing laws to counter the Federal Government overstepping its authority? Maybe these states have a better feel for the citizens of their states, instead of being swayed only by ‘Major City’ chiefs and politicians?

Keith Broughton @ 5/1/2013 5:35 AM

These large city police chiefs do not represent the majority of police who have no problem with the vote. The problem is not the firearm, people are the problem. Stricter enforcement of existing laws is the answer, not another one that the criminal element will ignore.

Retired officer @ 5/1/2013 6:03 AM

Police Chiefs are politicians. They don't care about the Constitution Rights. Next time, tell these police chiefs, especially chief Ramsey that his entire family need to have an extensive background check before they speak (because they are not guaranteed by the First Amendment to speak). I am a resident in Fairfax County (a bigger city than Philadelphia where Ramsey ran his mouth) in Virginia. We have 1.1 million citizens and 1300 officers. Police officer vs citizen ratio is razor thin. The HQ of the NRA is located in Fairfax County. The average annual homicide: FIFTEEN. Fairfax County has more citizens with conceal carrying license than any "big" city in America

Richard Fatschel @ 5/1/2013 8:18 AM

What makes people think that these congress men weren't voting as their constituents wanted them too! All these anti gunners forget that there are Americans out here that support the second amendment and were all law abiding citizens. The NRA didn't make them vote as they did we the law abiding gun owners who pressured them to vote that way did. Wake up people they aren't cowards they're representing all of their constituents both gun haters and gun owners.

Rob @ 5/1/2013 8:34 AM

So I see that Ramsay thinks we live in a dictatorship were only the family's of Sandy Hook get to decide what gun laws should be passed. How about the other 315 million people in America. Guns don't kill people PEOPLE kill people. Enforce the laws we have don't make other useless laws we can't enforce.

Ken Lewis @ 5/1/2013 9:19 AM

I've been a police chief for 25 years during these past 25 years I belonged to IACP for exactly 5 years, before I became fed up with the orgaqnization and its extreme political machinations and quit it for good. These so-called "police chiefs" are nothing more than liberal jackasses and those among them who support subverting the 2nd Amendment and disarming law abiding Americans should be thrown out of the law enforcement profession on their asses.

Charles @ 5/2/2013 9:09 AM

As a Police Chief from a rural community in Southern NJ it makes me proud to see my brother officers speak up about Mr Ramseys comments. I once had alot of respect for him but seeing him in Washington DC sitting next to our criminal president early on during the attempted sexual assault of our firearm rights showed me he is nothing more than a politician. It disgusts me to hear these idiots make statements about gun laws that they know are not true.

Marshal Fine @ 5/2/2013 12:19 PM

I am a police exec. in a small town. Have been in law enforcement and a police trainer for years. I say that to say this. Those chiefs come from large cities. They are tightly controlled by a political party that has the agenda that the tool (gun) is bad, but at the same time, those jurisdictions DO NOT arrest or prosecute gun crimes ! Hey big boys.. if you're gonna' talk the talk, walk the walk. Arrest and prosecute gun crimes that you have on the books. And while I'm at it... meet Chicago, Ill. STRICTEST gun control in the USA.. Killing capitol of the USA.. politics are politics..... numbers don't lie... God Bless us all !

jCarl @ 5/3/2013 7:43 AM

My friends in the fire service point out that more peole have died in buildings without fire sprinklers than have died from the recent mass
casualty shooting incidents. Where are the chiefs iwith their support for fire sprinklers? Where are the chiefs with the efforts to control fires through fire control legislation?
What's the second favorite sport in Wisconsin? It's drunk driving,
operating while intoxicated, driving under the influence. And the injury and death is not the result of six pack violence, brandy violence or booze violence. It is due to the drunk driver. The instrument of violence and carnage is the motor vehicle. Hey Chiefs, where are you on the issue of "vehicle control" and common sense laws to keep drunks from obtaining cars and trucks?
Firearms are one of the few, if not only, instrumentality that is singled out for irrational fear, vilifying, and ostracizing . The chiefs seem to forget that violence is person to person not device to person.
If they applied their line of thinking to the Gosnell trial they would be screaming for medical instrument control.

Jeff @ 5/22/2013 7:18 AM

Why can't we have a visible and vocal group comprised of LEOs that publicly condemn IACP and their ilk so citizens who object aren't trivialized?

anthrogirl @ 5/23/2013 6:43 AM

People argue its people, not guns that's the problem. I agree. Let's focus in making sure bad people don't get guns. First, let's close the background check loopholes. Next, let's increase penalties on people who knowingly supply criminals with guns. Let's also have a national list of people that doctors, social workers and school psychologists can add to when they think someone has mental health issues including clinical disease, a strong dispositions toward anger, depression and any other behavior that could lead that person to hurt themselves or others. Let's make it a law where people must turn in others for psych evals if they feel a person is or can be dangerous. Example, if you had suspicions about a person (like Lanza) and that person ends up hurting others and you didnt turn them in, you should be arrested. Also, let's turn in parents who keep guns in their homes that are not locked away from their kids (ie, in the night stand drawer). Not only can we screen for criminals, we can screen for potential mass murders and irresponsible gun owners. Let's make this about the people, not the guns.

anthrogirl @ 5/23/2013 6:59 AM

If you were in a school and saw a gunman entering a classroom, what would you do? If you'd run away and call for help, that's okay. It's important to get help ASAP. If you would run toward the shooter and try to stop him, that's okay too. But realize that if you were the one who ran toward the shooter, you made the decision to risk your life which includes all your rights in order to save the kids in that room. You made the conscious decision to elevate their lives above your own which includes your rights to assault weapons. Your heroism highlights the point that the right for those kids to live outweighs anything else. If you're the hero type, you value the core premise of gun control advocates, that the right to life supersedes the right to own things like assault weapons. If you're not the hero type, you core value is to preserve yourself first and to preserve all the rights that go with your life.

Bobby Kearan @ 9/24/2013 9:17 AM

Another thread I'll try to resurrect for a burning question.
Something needs to be done to help prevent mass shootings. So, instead of laws to restrict access, how about laws encouraging training? I'd say place a high tax on guns and ammunition. Offer training courses where, if completed and certified, you get a card that greatly reduces or eliminates the tax.

Thoughts?
( Details at : http://bobbyshead.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-founders-guns-rights-and-me.html )

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