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Shooting of Tamir Rice ‘Objectively Reasonable,’ New Report Finds

November 13, 2015  | 

The November 2014 shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice by a Cleveland police officer was deemed "objectively reasonable" Thursday afternoon, in the third report on the incident to be released by the Cuyahoga County prosecutor, reports Newsweek.

The latest report was carried out by W. Ken Katsaris, a certified Florida law enforcement officer, instructor, and consultant in law enforcement with more than 30 years of experience.

Rice was killed by Officer Timothy Loehmann on November 22, 2014, while playing with a fake gun in a Cleveland park. His death set off national outrage, yet neither of the officers involved has been charged in the shooting.

After observing surveillance video of the shooting, Katsaris determined Loehmann had "only one split second" to make a decision, and had identified Rice was a threat because he moved toward the waist, where the dispatcher said he kept the gun. Loehmann’s decision to shoot Rice was, in Katsaris's opinion, "clearly objectively reasonable, given the totality of the circumstances."

In his concluding statements, Katsaris said that despite the tragic loss of life, "labeling the officers' conduct as anything but objectively reasonable would also be a tragedy, albeit not carrying with it the consequences of the loss of life, only the possibility of loss of career."

Comments (24)

Displaying 1 - 24 of 24

Bob peterson @ 11/14/2015 3:24 PM

The police officer did not know the gun was fake. I'm pretty sure the kid knew it was wrong to point the gun at police. What are police suppose to do? Good job officers. Parents, teach your children not to point guns better yet, at that age, don't let them have guns.

Leonard @ 11/15/2015 6:41 PM

It's obscene that anyone could even think the actions of these officers justified. It demonstrates clearly that law enforcement cannot be trusted to investigate themselves, that LE will use any rationalization to deem their deadly mistakes reasonable. It also demo sates that civilians need to take control of the police departments. That society need to define what the standards should be instead cop LE defining the standard, because the standard being applied toward Tamir is clearly wrong

Jordie @ 11/16/2015 6:14 AM

Leonard, it's a good thing that breathing and pulmonary functions are autonomic functions, because you would be too stupid to do both on your own. Police departments are ALREADY UNDER THE CONTROL OF CIVILIAN AUTHORITY. What do you call city managers, mayors, and town/county/city councils? Society has already determined the standards used by police - read about the consensus model of our constitutional form of government some time. It's a good thing idiots like you aren't charged with protecting the community - we would have all gone the way of the Dodo bird a long time ago.

Leonard @ 11/16/2015 7:41 AM

I disagree with your assessment. Police departments operate with a great deal of autonomy. They relationships the exist between DAs, the judiciaryand police is one that discourages accountability. Police unions are extremely influential in local politics and when a public official does openly criticize officers, unions respond with "blood on the their hand" type comments. Communities need to take back control of their police departments. We have allowed many departments to more into paramilitary organizations. We've allowed police to determine that SWAT is an acceptable resource to use to issue search warrants and most obscenely, allowed officers to use deadly force based upon perceived threats rather that real ones. The Tamir Rice incident proves my point. This prosecutor is actively looking for reasons not to indict these officers that killed an 12 year old playing in a park. The officers created the very conditions that caused them to kill child and they need to be jailed

Leonard @ 11/16/2015 7:45 AM

I don't care that the officers didn't know that the kid didn't have a real gun. They failed in every aspect of their job, the were negligent and killed a child. They didn't stop at a safe distance, they didn't establish a safe perimeter to evaluated the threat. They didn't give a child enough time to respond. They drove in like Dirty Harry And killed a child. You those apologist that want to give a pass should realized that this type of police actions put all of us at risk.

plato's playdough @ 11/16/2015 11:06 PM
--the above link to "11-year-old boy in the US state of Tennessee has been held on suspicion of shooting dead an eight-year-old girl "

_>> all the above links are to articles relating 11yo to 13yo teens firing a gun. A real gun. They may have been taken from their own home.

You whining lil libtard sob's___ stfu.

Robert @ 11/17/2015 9:30 AM

Jordie, I think you miss one very important point. Many/Most police departments LACK civilian oversight. Most departments do NOT have a civilian oversight board that has ANY authority to review police shootings and/or issue discipline. That is a problem....and needs to be corrected. In most towns the civilian government could fire the police chief...but they cannot impost discipline or fire an individual officer, even after a review of the facts...that is a problem.
The US Military is led by 2 civilians (POTUS and SecDef)...and both have the power to fire/discipline any member of the military, after a review (NJP or CM).
As for constitutional review..the standard is clear "reasonable person". My problem is this: I feel that standard should always be addressed in a jury trial and not by a DA who works with police everyday.
How can a DA decide there is no 'probable cause' for a criminal trial...and yet a jury finds a preponderance of evidence shows a crime in a civil trial??

S.S. @ 11/18/2015 11:52 AM

It's really sad that you have these non l.e. people talking about this and that, and doing the whole Monday morning quarterbacking. They talk about how the officer should of acted, and take forever on trying to prove their point. You all don't know a thing about what goes on out there. It's people like you who I call "cowards". You all pass yourselves as a reasonable person, and don't understand the job. You think that the officer has the time to make a decisive decision on what is occurring in real time. However if the wrong one is made then you all choose to condemn the officer. If you think it's that eay by all means go on a ride along or apply to become an officer. Something tells me that you all won't even pass a background check, or that you all are merely too scared to do it. Cowards.

Percy @ 11/18/2015 1:08 PM

Oh boo hoo I see your comments and biases haven't changed in years.
All you can ever do is tell civilians how we don't know a thing about anything.
Well I live in a city that has crime, robberies, drugs, murders, rapes, etc etc etc..
How you feel you can call me a coward simply because I choose disagree with your way of seeing things is laughable.
Having a few le friends (retired) that I golf with I am often disgusted with someof their comments, about civilians and the utter lack of respect they seem to have for the public and quite often the law (please note I said some before your usual type of knee jerk stupidity). By the way I could easily pass a background, physical, and mental tests and checks. Maybe if people like you and Joe Hoffman tried a little harder not to be so disagreable and frightened all the time you would be better at your jobs, and wouldn't feel the need to insult the public every time you open your pie holes. The way this child was murdered was pathetic.

S.S. @ 11/19/2015 5:26 AM

Once again percy is talking out of her ass. I will say it again "you all don't know shit about what's going on." Just cause you can read a few news articles, all of sudden you are an expert. I don't think so. Go back to your hole percy and stop thinking you know what its like.

Percy @ 11/19/2015 3:09 PM

Yes dear.
I seem to have hit a sore spot.
BTW it's not its, try not to embarrass yourself sweetheart, and remember when wiping front to back.

PS So ONLY YOU and others like YOU know what it's like.
Is that why every day especially in tx, more than 1 person
dies while in police custody on top of all the others you people murder?
I see that the cop's best friend trump went full nazi, you guys must be so proud.
What it is like oh learned one?

notepad @ 11/19/2015 6:24 PM

@Leonard and Percy
You obviously are not cops and don't understand what it's like on the street. I guess all you can do is log on and try to belittle those who risk their lives for you. You get your rocks off by trying to bait us into a war of words. How about looking at the links that Plato provided before you start typing nonsense. It's one thing to live in a tough city where you have the option to bypass a bad neighborhood and another to have to walk through and patrol that area that you choose to drive around. Walk a mile in our shoes before condemn us.

Leonard @ 11/20/2015 6:39 PM

@notepad. I'll stop condemning when the shooting of unarmed and innocent civlians stop. When police stop shooting people based upon perceived threats, when police stop putting their safety above the safety of the citizens they interact. And yes, citizens do have the right to Monday morning quarterback those we give authority to use deadly force against us. If you can't display the proper restraint or necessary judgment when it comes to exercising force and particularly deadly force, then you are a danger to everyone and should not be a cop. It's really that simple.

notepad @ 11/21/2015 2:53 PM

@ leonard
I noticed you ignored what I said, and like a true liberal, you avoided the issue and continued with your nonsense rhetoric. You don't have the right to Monday morning quarterback. You have to view it from what happened AT THAT TIME and under those circumstances. Why do you feel that a thug's life is worth more than mine? Most are career criminals and although they were unarmed, they can still be deadly. You over simplify the issue. Feel free to come to a training session where I can run you through a few scenarios and we'll see how YOUR perception changes. I highly doubt you will take me up on my offer as it's too easy for for you to hide behind the safety of the keyboard.

S.S. @ 11/23/2015 6:17 AM

percy and leonard it's really sad to see 2 morons like yourselves can be this clueless and stupid. If you've never been a cop just s.t.f.u. Neither of you have the balls (especially percy) it takes to be a police officer. Think about this and as I said before just s.t.f.u. At night when you 2 idiots get to sleep. Who do you think provides that protection you 2 ingreats get. I just know neither of you 2 have a firearm, and would be the first ones to call 911. COWARDS!!!

Percy @ 11/23/2015 5:22 PM


Yes dear.
I seem to have hit a sore spot again.
BTW it's ingrates not ingreats, try not to embarrass yourself sweetheart, and remember when wiping front to back.

I see you are back to your usual form, of insulting and nothing else.
And no S.S. I will not stfu, and there isn't a dam thing you can do about it.
I am out of range of your gun, taser, rifle, shotgun, baton, armored vehicle,
chemical and electric weapons. So lick my sack sweetheart.
You are wrong about every opinion you have of me, but based on your comments
the only things you seem to understand is rage and fear.

S.S. @ 11/24/2015 12:51 PM

In your case ms. percy is annoyance. This site is for l.e. not some wannabe v.i.p. ms percy please go back to your hole please. Everyone on this site knows what you're all about. Just another p.o.s. liberal who will do anything they can to make themselves relevant. I'm spot on about my opinion of you, cause i just said it. Anyways I had a few minutes to kill, since I finished what I'm supposed too. So I just figure I'd send out this message to you to let you know how worthless you are. I can take solice in knowing that you know, even though you are a scumbag, her freedom is protected by l.e. Have a good day maam.

Percy @ 11/24/2015 1:06 PM


Yes dear.
I seem to have hit a sore spot again.
BTW it's solace not solice, try not to embarrass yourself sweetheart, and remember when wiping front to back.

This site, (like any other which doesn't require a user name & password) is for anyone and everyone. You should read that document written some time ago by people far smarter far more literate, and much much less angry than yourself.
I have always been amused by the fact that cops hate liberals, ever look at the word liberty?
Nice to see you are walking back your assertions about me, now only being your opinion, smart move. I look forward to your rants about Jason Van Dyke and how it is somehow Obama's fault.
A $5 million dollar settlement without even filing a lawsuit and a 1st degree murder charge. SWEET!!!!

S.S. @ 11/25/2015 6:39 AM

Look miss like I said you cling onto every word I say about you. It's just trying to make your self relivent. You are a sad,sad excuse for a female. Please go find a job and try to contribute something to society. I know one thing for sure and that is liberals are ruining this country, and people like you just want attention. I guess that is the reason you act like a douchebag, and cling on to everything I say. You have yourself a wonderful day maam.

Percy @ 11/25/2015 3:17 PM

Yes dear.
I seem to have hit a sore spot again.

BTW it's relevant not relivent, try not to embarrass yourself sweetheart, and
remember when wiping front to back.
I told you before sweetie I am
male not female
not on welfare, actually a job creator.
liberal, you actually got 1 right, you dunce.
not from "this country"

You are entitled to your own opinion, you aren't however entitled to your own facts.

Unless of course there is no video then you and all those like you can (and do) say
whatever the hell you want.

Like this, this is just one of the FACTS re the Jason Van Dyke case:

It doesn't square with the story a police union spokesman told at the scene Oct. 20, 2014.

FOP spokesman Pat Camden said McDonald was shot in the chest after he lunged at Van Dyke and his partner with a knife. "He is a very serious threat to the officers, and he leaves them no choice at that point to defend themselves," Camden said that night.

You seem to have soiled yourself with your comments on that.

S.S. @ 11/30/2015 6:08 AM

Just another douchebag who cowers in her home protected by the security, and freedom that we provide her. Sad, sad excuse of just another cyber tough woman who doesn't know that shit we do.

S.S. @ 11/30/2015 6:10 AM

same old tired shit from ms. percy. like I said nothing "new" so bitch has to cut and paste. WEAK!!

S.S. @ 12/2/2015 8:29 AM

Now percy that's not what your mom said. Why do you think she named you percy. The fact remains miss percy you are a nuisance who does not belong and not welcomed on this site. So go back to the streets with your mommy.

S.S. @ 12/3/2015 11:32 AM

percy you are a true nuissance you and leonard. You wanna bash police, go ahead, but why don't you do it on a web site where there are sick freaks like you too. Percy being the little bitch would hide and cry if any trouble would come his way. Typical punk. Leonard same thing you all have no balls at all. You are a complete coward, and percy well since you are a female well of course you wouldn't have them, but maybe your mother will let you borrow hers. Both of these assholes would definately come out running and screaming like the little bitches that they. We see punks like you all the time everyday. GUTLESS,PATHETIC, COWARDS!!!

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