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Ind. Bill Could Bring Open Season on Cops

March 05, 2012  | 

The Indiana House passed a bill allowing residents to use force against officers who illegally enter their homes over the objections of a retired captain who said it could bring deadly consequences for officers.

Rep. Linda Lawson, a Democrat and retired captain of the Hammond Police Department, begged her colleagues not to pass the bill, fearing it would create "open season on law enforcement," reports the Indianapolis Star.

Senate Bill 1 is aimed at overturning a controversial Indiana Supreme Court decision from May. That 3-2 decision said people have no right to resist if police officers illegally enter their homes.

The bill has not yet become law. It would still need approval by the full Legislature and signature from Gov. Mitch Daniels.

Tags: Legislation, Deadly Force, Indiana State Police


Comments (109)

Displaying 1 - 109 of 109

kelly boden @ 3/5/2012 12:41 PM

Maybe time to look for another job.

Dan J. @ 3/5/2012 3:04 PM

If I'm an Indiana cop, I'm either looking for an immediate career change, or I'm letting bad guys run. The sheeple want that kind of law, they don't need me to protect them.

Doc @ 3/5/2012 3:09 PM

amen

Bruce G. @ 3/5/2012 3:28 PM

Flip this around....shame on the senators who created the additional risk to their citizens! How many residents will be shot by police officers lawfully entering a property who are confronted by an armed person who thinks he is lawfully defending his property?? Did the senators not consider that police officers go to great lengths to perform their duties lawfully every time, every day?! I think it's safe to say the average resident would have no way of knowing if an officer is lawfully entering their property (until an attorney tells them after the fact ?)

Scott @ 3/5/2012 3:35 PM

Absolutely ridiculous!!!! Politicians have no idea the risks and sacrifices too many officers already make!... I agree time for a damn career change for Indiana P.O.'s or don't do anything and just take your reports ... No more exigent circumstances or acting in good faith!!!!

T.boy @ 3/5/2012 3:57 PM

Actually, i love this... time to end police brutality.. we need a change like this sometimes..

Marty @ 3/5/2012 4:05 PM

This law is UNBELIEVABLE !! Has the State of Indiana lost its mind!! This law will cause many DEATHS !!!

D-Ray @ 3/5/2012 4:06 PM

This is beyond comprehension. If this became reality, I would never enter a residence, search warrant or not.

Jordan @ 3/5/2012 4:13 PM

This is in response to a bad Indiana supreme court case last year which stated it is NEVER appropriate to use force against a law enforcement officer, whether or not he is obviously acting outside of his duties.

There have been recent cases across our nation where police officers have killed their girlfriends, wives, friends, etc. Do you really want a situation where their victims couldn't legally defend themselves, just because the bad guy was wearing a police uniform?

martyb @ 3/5/2012 4:14 PM

Oh... THIS is just bad!

RM @ 3/5/2012 4:14 PM

Once again those who have been elected, yet lack anything but theory are attempting to arm chair quarterback the team. The issue at hand is dealt with by the courts. This is typical knee jerk legislation. Nice to see the value these legislators place on the officers in this state.

FGlenn @ 3/5/2012 4:19 PM

Thank God I retired last year. People asked me for 36 years why I did the job. Now I am not so sure. I wanted to save lives, but I am just glad I got out alive. Good luck to the rest of you.

Eric @ 3/5/2012 4:23 PM

This bill will not pose a threat to law enforcement officers, because it only reiterates what the Second Amendment says, which is that we have the RIGHT (given to us by God; NOT man) to keep and bear arms, and the only other thing the bill says is that a citizen has the right to use deadly force only if an officer enters a house illegally. So don't enter any homes illegally and you'll be just fine.

CT LEO RET @ 3/5/2012 4:24 PM

This bill is a disaster, Indiana doesn't need any more after the tornados that went thru there. God bless the citizens of the hoosier state.

Eric @ 3/5/2012 4:31 PM

I see a lot of comments arguing against this law, but I disagree; I think it's a good law. It will force cops to make their presence, official authority and intent clear BEFORE they just break down someone's door. If you come knocking on my door, I'd better hear two words loud and clear...'POLICE' and 'WARRANT', otherwise.....you're getting shot. But I'm a reasonable and personable guy; I don't break the law, and besides, all you have to do is ring the bell or knock and I'll answer. My guess is that if you're serving a warrant or doing a raid, you're busting in anyway, so you're bound to scare the crap out of people when you do that, and you should EXPECT to be on the dangerous end of a barrel if that's the situation. The second amendment clearly states that Americans have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms, and the reason is specifically protecting our own God-given freedom to live from a tyrannic government. You all should read your American history more often.

MM @ 3/5/2012 4:31 PM

This insane idea hopefully will be stopped by the Governor if the Legislature of Indiana doesn't have the common sense to do so.

darryl outhouse @ 3/5/2012 4:33 PM

Trouble with citizens making that decision is that they are often deluded in their belief about what is legal and not legal. With or without the IN law, we all need to be extremely careful because there are a lot of idiots out there.

Commander Griffin @ 3/5/2012 4:34 PM

This is a bad decision no matter how you slice it. The risk to Officers with this Bill, outweighs the benefit.

Bill @ 3/5/2012 4:34 PM

If this passes it is not going to create an "open season" on cops. What it will do is make sure they have the correct address on the warrant, and behave correctly! If they are in fact the bad guy in the situation, the uniform doesn't make them God. Too many of them in recent months think it does.

TripWire @ 3/5/2012 4:38 PM

I'd like to see the wording on the bill, I have trouble believing that it's going to be open season on LEO's. Lets be realistic here, It's Probably more likely just to clarify the law to dissuade fears of "Police State" brutality stemming from the earlier court ruling.

dbear @ 3/5/2012 4:43 PM

Ok for those of you that think this is a good law here is the scenario. Officers enter citizens house legally for what ever reason. Citizen thinks that they are there illegally because most citizens do not know. Citizen tries to use force on Officers citizen is shot and killed or seriously hurt. I see this playing out at least once before the legislatures figures out where there heads were at when they passed this law.

neildps @ 3/5/2012 4:44 PM

Tboy your a jerk. If you shoot at me I will have to kill you to save my own life.
wake up mister. Cops are not on the streets to hurt you just do the right thing.

Mark A. Brooks @ 3/5/2012 4:44 PM

I don't know where this will go. Officers will still act the same way and use the same amount of force, but the home owners will fight more, which results in more civilian/officer injuries. No pros there...only cons. I don't understand what the law's intent is? The U.S. Constitutional and 42 U.S.C. Section 1983 already protects the public. The Court's decision was right on point with the constitution...

Ray P @ 3/5/2012 4:46 PM

I agree with Bruce G. The average person is going to confuse not wanting police to come into their house with knowing if the can legally. You're sending trained officers to go out and deal with people who don't know what probable cause or exigencies are. Two things are going to happen. 1-police aren't going to want to do their job. 2-people in both sides are going to get hurt.

DAG @ 3/5/2012 4:51 PM

This type of legislation truly indicates that these delegates are out of touch. If this legislation is passed it will open the gates for use of force by citizens and mostly our criminal element. Criminals profess their innocent now and I can hear the proclamations, "the officers entered my home illegally so I opened fire." I concur the court ruling was in error as well, which supposedly sparked this ridiculous and absurd legislation. This action by members of the Indiana House is ludicrous and hopefully the Indiana Senate and Governor will reject it. If it is allowed to pass all I can say is - WOW!!

Randy @ 3/5/2012 4:54 PM

Lets think about this, I'm a former police officer, good faith or not, get the address correct!

someone said...

This law is UNBELIEVABLE !! Has the State of Indiana lost its mind!! This law will cause many DEATHS....

Guess what, cops going into the wrong house has already caused many deaths. The Government can't keep writing laws to protect lazy cops who can't get an address right. If we have to error lets error on the side of justice. If you don't have an informant, don't get a warrant. DON'T MAKE SO MANY MISTAKES!

Dan @ 3/5/2012 4:57 PM

Who gets to decide if the officer's entry is legal or not? And when will that be determined? If its a late night service of a warrant, will they be clear headed enough to make that call? Sounds like more citizens will be hurt, which isn't what we're here for.

Randy @ 3/5/2012 4:57 PM

For all the officers that said they should start looking for another job over this, I completely agree. If you can't get an address right you won't even make a good salesman. Nobody here is considering the trauma of a good family being busted into by hooded gunman. If your a bad guy then who cares. But if your a good law abiding person then damn those who are here to protect and serve.

TimFromLA @ 3/5/2012 5:04 PM

And who here is for unfettered access to guns without some sort of control? Apparently Republican Governor Mitch Daniels

Dan @ 3/5/2012 5:04 PM

Randy - Mistakes are made. Those are handled by way of a law suite and an internal affairs investigation. They are not handled by violence that is likely to escalate anda cause someones death. No sir, you aren't seeing the full picture.

Jeff B @ 3/5/2012 5:16 PM

I was unaware of the apparent wave of renegade cops committing home invasions in Indiana.

Hey IN cops, any insight in what started this nonsense?

Jim @ 3/5/2012 5:35 PM

Insanity on the part of the involved polticians. Every officer in Indiana who answers a D.V Call is at much greater risk. If the offender is still on scene, he or she will say they believe the police illegally entered and they attacked/killed them. There are a number of large agencies in other states actively hiring!-time to leave Indiana and Move! Hopefully, the F.OP and others will stand against this.

TC @ 3/5/2012 5:50 PM

The courts are for dispute resolution, not inside a doorway or on the porch at 0300. Insofar as the Senate of Indiana is concerned, never underestimate the power of stupid people in groups.

HANK HILL @ 3/5/2012 5:51 PM

WHAT A CRAZY LAW! HOPE IT DONT PASS! THESE GOV FOLK NEED TO BE VOTED OUT OF OFFICE FAST!

Agt G Fernandez @ 3/5/2012 5:52 PM

This is the most stupid nonsense I ever herd ! With this bill they are turning our streets into ba(tle zones. It's bad enough the we risk our lives in every turn. Why don't they go out in the field with us so they taste what we go through while the sleep safely at home with the protection we provide.

jmartinez @ 3/5/2012 6:11 PM

what about the officer serving a warrant on a gang member ? who either rapped, assulted, rob or killed.... a child of one of the legislator who, agreed to pass this retarded bill.
might as well, tie the cops hand behind his back every time he goes to serve a warrant and prepare for his funeral.

donut_plz @ 3/5/2012 6:23 PM

That is just insane. So now the Police will get shot legally entering every home in Indiana because the low lifes will say they thought it was an illegal entry.
All this does is create more shootings.

Hardliner @ 3/5/2012 6:46 PM

As a 27 year veteran of L/E, I do not see the problem with this law as the key word is ILLEGALLY enter one's home.

Rick @ 3/5/2012 6:52 PM

There has been enough police officers and raids gone wrong where they busted down the wrong door and terrorized innocent civilians or even shot them. I'm a former USCG tactical officer and we had to be SURE the intended target was the boat we actually raided. This law counters the idiot judges ruling that said citizens couldn't legally resist Officers even if they were commiting wrong doing. For those of you that are scared of armed citizens, either be sure of your tactics and targets or find another line of work. As for me, I never feared an armed citizen.

Wolfva @ 3/5/2012 6:54 PM

So, cop knocks on door and announces he's got a warrant. Criminal home owner tells the cop to leave his property or else. Cop kicks in door to serve warrant, man shoots cop. Man is prosecuted because it was a legal entry, after all, the congressman said if such a thing happens, they'll simply prosecute the home owner. WELL. Isn't THAT a comfort to the officer lying dead in a grave? Bet his widow and children will be overjoyed at justice being done.

Joe @ 3/5/2012 6:56 PM

I'm good with it as long as the legislators who voted for the bill are the first through the door on a search warrant. I'll cover the back door.

Joe @ 3/5/2012 7:05 PM

And Rick above.... have you fallen off your rocker? Boats are a little easier to identify that flop houses or apartments a,b,c, and d. Even with that, hitting the wrong door is an extreme rare occurrence in my neck of the woods. This is not a macho game of fear. Do you want to make things even? Give the target of a search warrant an excuse to pull the trigger on a fully identified police officer because he thinks it's an illegal entry? They never know that it is legal until the paper is shown to them after the house is secured and they are cuffed on the couch. Not sure how business is run in Indiana or other shops, but this is absolutley obsurd.

Frank @ 3/5/2012 7:20 PM

Two things politicians should never be involved in Law Enforcement and the Military. This country is going to hell, next they'll be letting the Mexican Drug Cartels in. I expect this from my state, Massachusetts.

SJ13 @ 3/5/2012 7:25 PM

When this law was rushed in effect it stated Police can enter your home illegally. Face it, a rush to judgement in forcing this law was wrong. That law the way it was written would cause more harm than good. It does not say you can assult police for entering your home, illegal entry only. Can you enter a home if you hear someone screaming for help? If your chasing someone the enters a home? If you see an illegal act through the window? If you thought you hear a cry for help? Yes to all above, as it should be. But No to abusive "so-called acts" by some. If you believe that makes it "open season" on L.E. than your probally someone who might cross the line in the "line of duty, abuse of authority". If that's you...time to hold your self to that higher standard, like your supposed to in the first place. Read the word "Illegally"...That says it all, Illegal is Illegal, good guy or bad guy...Illegal is Illegal! Would you Illegally enter someones home if you were off duty? Ever had one to many...off-duty? The term Illegal again comes up. Common sense, disgression, do the right thing. That simple.

Jerry @ 3/5/2012 7:28 PM

Great! Now the police will be more justified in shooting someone if they enter the wrong house because they do have the right and responsibility to stop the threat. No more thinking, just see the threat and take it out. Wow what a great idea in favor of the police. All in how you look at it.

JLF @ 3/5/2012 7:30 PM

I think the question is can citizens use common sense when applying this law. I think the cops can figure it out. That's what we are trained to do. But to leave the discretion and interpretation to the citizens on what is legal and illegal is scary. Every entry is illegal in the homeowner's view if you ask me.

Troy @ 3/5/2012 7:37 PM

This won't hold water in higher courts.

LeRoy @ 3/5/2012 7:38 PM

I think many of you are over-reacting. The law is intended to allow residents to use force against law enforcement officers who ILLEGALLY enter their homes. As long as an officer or officers are doing their job LEGALLY and appropriately, there should not be a problem.

Think about what you are saying as you're voicing your opposition to the proposed law. You are saying that you want residents to be denied the right to self protection, to be sitting ducks, when officers enter their homes ILLEGALLY. You all need to remember you took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State where you work. It appears to me many of you think the police should have the right to enter someone's home ILLEGALLY without repercussions or accountability. Your attitude scares the hell out of me.

By the way and for what it's worth, I'm a 27 year law enforcement veteran, now serving as a judge.

Dean Huey @ 3/5/2012 8:27 PM

I'm certainly glad that I retired in 2008; the law makers never stop making it more dangerous and difficult to do Police work! Hard to believe Indiana is trying to pass such a law is beyond comprehension.

TripWire @ 3/5/2012 8:30 PM

C'mon, the sky is not going to fall, and there will not be plagues of frogs or rivers of blood. Y'all will just have to do what you have always done, as violence can happen any day regardless of any change in the law, IF the bill even does become law.

Soap Box @ 3/5/2012 8:45 PM

This response is aimed at those of you who keep saying that is not a big deal deal because it allows the homeowner to protect themselves from officers making illegal entry. You really need to read the whole bill itself and not just a watered down article. The bill states

"a person is justified in using reasonable force against a law enforcement officer if the person reasonably believes the force is necessary".

So now anyone can say they used deadly force because they "thought" it was an illegal entry. Once the bullet leaves the barrel, you cant call it back and "Oops, sorry about that. I thought you were here illeagally" won't cut it.

David @ 3/5/2012 9:03 PM

T.Boy! You're An Obvious Candidate For The Darwin Awards! If This Goes Into Effect Then The POS Criminals Will Attempt To Use Every Cop Entry Into A Home As The "I Thought The Cops Were Coming In Illegally" Affirmative Defense! But Once The Cop or Cops Are Dead, Isn't It A Little Late To Say "Aw Shucks I'm Sorry, I Didn't Know!!!" We Have People Now Who Resist An Arresting Officer's Attempts To Place Them Under Arrest Because They Think It's An Illegal Arrest!!!
So Take Your Cop Hatin' Keester To Some ACLU Website & Offer Your Obvious Expertise Regarding Police Brutality & How To Stop It!!! Perhaps Someone There Will Take You Seriously!

Jordan! NEVER Start An Argument With: "There have been recent cases..."!!! Cite These "Recent Cases". Your Argument Is Also Flawed Regarding LEO's "killed their girlfriends, wives, friends, etc."! With Rare Exception These Killings You Speak Of, Occurred Involving Off Duty Officers, NOT By Cops Entering Houses Illegally While On Duty.

C'Mon Man!!! Apples & Oranges!!! Apples & Oranges!!! Get With The Program!!!

gp cobb @ 3/5/2012 9:13 PM

I'm on both sides of the fence on this one; that said, since I'm a law abiding legal citizen, when the door comes busting in, they are gonna meet lead, no questions asked, Castle Doctrine rules here. JMO

gp cobb @ 3/5/2012 9:15 PM

Read the first line!

who illegally enter their homes

LawMan5643 @ 3/5/2012 9:40 PM

Once again these WORTHLESS politicians have done something that affects the lives of officers. When are we going to take a stand & prevent politicians from making law enforcement decisions? It's always those politicians that have no clue about what it is we do day in day out.

Dave M @ 3/5/2012 9:46 PM

Would love to read exactly what the statute says. But this sounds ridiculous.

If an officer is entering a house illegally or using excessive force, there is recourse after the fact. What may seem like a reasonable resistance on the scene may seem quite different in a courtroom, which is where the final decision should be made.

Especially today where recording video is everywhere.

Parapyropig @ 3/6/2012 2:32 AM

Thise who would make enemies of the police should start making friends with the criminals.

The Dawg @ 3/6/2012 3:04 AM

I got a cool grand that says I could pick T. Boy out of a lineup.

Mary @ 3/6/2012 4:12 AM

I'm proud to have trained with Linda. Glad to see politics hasn't changed her strong officer safety ideals. To the rest of you- shame!!

R. G. Montgomery @ 3/6/2012 5:06 AM

If a private citizen does something prohibited by law by mistake, the citizen is liable for the consequences. Why should agencies or individual officers be exempt?

Police DO invade the wrong homes. It happens because the officers and supervisors responsible for organizing the raid are incompetent or simply lazy and don't perform due diligence in preparation. Anyone upset over this should direct their attention at those in law enforcement who caused the problem; not homeowners who defend themselves or legislators who recognize the problem.

This also applies to home invasion robberies. How many home invasion robberies are committed by criminals posing as police? Those objecting to this law want homeowners to surrender to criminals because that's better than some inept or lazy police officer being inconvenienced when he invades the wrong house.

This will not bring an open season on cops. It will require officers to act professionally in planning actions. I can think of several of my former co-workers who would be in trouble.

Joe Q. Public @ 3/6/2012 5:34 AM

You cops that are grumbling about this, did you forget to read the part authorizing force if the cops "illegally entered" the dwelling?

I used to think that cops were the good guys. Now I know from experience that there are many bad apples amongst your ranks.

kbradford @ 3/6/2012 5:43 AM

This is just a bad joke right?? They're not really this fkn stupid, right?? God Bless our Indiana brothers and sisters! Maybe it's time for you to relocate.

kbradford @ 3/6/2012 5:55 AM

I've been doing this job 25 years, I've seen a lot in a court room and what I see has nothing to do with bad or good tactics. This would give a citizen, banger, bad guy, a built in defense to say "I shot him because I thought he was there illegally" If you don't think a jury will give that some thought, and way towards the defendant then you are in the wrong business. This is NOT the way to get rid of bad cops or correct mistaken addresses. Your stupid if you think it is, This would be one more score for the bad guys in court to say, "Sorry" I didn't think they were cops, or "Sorry" I didn't think the warrant was real.

Ima Leprechaun @ 3/6/2012 6:26 AM

Of course this is Indiana so that alone says a lot. But I agree this is the craziest law I have ever heard of. Every entry from the point of view of the resident would be thought to be an illegal entry. If the cops are doing something illegal prosecute them later which is how the system is supposed to work. This bill makes every entry or knock at the door a probable shooting. Knowing politicians though it will proabably die in the state senate or at the Governors level but again this is Indiana. I have seen officers take time off to attend Klan Rallies and write on their time cards that they were attending a Klan Rally and being proud to be klansmen so I am never surprised about anything in Indiana. You just have to hope it stalls in the process like everythng else does.

jim @ 3/6/2012 6:32 AM

T.boy thinks that this bill can end police brutality. I think T.boy is an idiot. How many of our citizens can tell in the blink of an eye if an entry into their homes by a uniformed police officer is "unlawful"? Exactly ZERO! It will result in unnecessary injuries to the officers - and also injuries and criminal prosecution for the citizens. Maybe if they spend life in prison for murder of a police officer who is just doing his or her job, they will get the point.

Bleeding hearts. What the heck are they thinking?!

JimA

Mike @ 3/6/2012 6:35 AM

Here is the thing....do you job correct, and have nothing to worry about. Think of yourselves as what you are, an investigative service. Its about time we start following the constitution.

Phil @ 3/6/2012 6:38 AM

Good time to open up a funeral home in Indiana. If you shoot at a cop legally or not someone is going to shoot back at you. Two wrongs don't make a right as they say.

Mel @ 3/6/2012 6:49 AM

Obviously the legislators don't deal with the average general public, because they are assuming common sense will prevail. Common sense is not that common! It is actually becoming extinct!

Fedup @ 3/6/2012 6:51 AM

So if they are committing a crime I.e. kidnapping,rape...in their residence and the police responds the resident can answer the door with gunfire and the courts will find them innocent because the officers 'illegally' entered his property. Political lunacy!!!

Carl Samuels @ 3/6/2012 6:53 AM

Bad Law---needs much fine tuning. However, "BULLIES WITH BADGES" do exist, and thanks to TV, they are encouraged and tolerated.

MIke @ 3/6/2012 7:02 AM

UNNNBelievable... our great country is really going down the tubes thanks to Legislators like these! 'Jordan'; you're saying if a UNIFORMED officer says he needs to come in... you have the right to physically fight him? how long have you been on parole?

Guy Montag @ 3/6/2012 7:12 AM

This law is dumb ONLY in the sense that it is needed. Why would our property rights and our right to defend our property ever have been taken away? There is already a warrant system. It is naive to believe that this will make warrant searches more dangerous.

Police and all forms of Government love power grabs, don't you people take an oath to defend the constitution? It's time to get some informed professionals on the police force.

glenm @ 3/6/2012 7:38 AM

I hope the idiots that passed the first draft of this obamation get stopped as this legislation goes into the final process. Obamation is not a mis-spelling either.

Doug @ 3/6/2012 7:42 AM

This law wouldn't even exist if LEO's were not entering homes illegally. Stop entering homes illegally. Be a cop. Be professional. Stop breaking the law. This should be a non-issue. Also: it's not passed yet, and probably won't pass. While this method is not the answer, anyone who thinks it is deplorable for a citizen to resist U/E into their home because they have no right to resist a cop should find a new career. Please do, the world needs fewer bad cops.

Chris Fine @ 3/6/2012 7:52 AM

You can find bad employees in any field. This , however, is the worst case of over reaction I've ever seen. To all Indiana residents, CONTACT YOUR SENATOR OR STATE REP. and oppose this law. People will die, or not get service. That's reality, not hype

DMarshall @ 3/6/2012 7:58 AM

T. Boy and Jordan, I'm happy neither of you is riding the beat next to mine. The next time they post that opening in records or the property room, do us all a favor. Jump on it.

Atomizer @ 3/6/2012 9:24 AM

The story says "illegally entering a home".... If I am awakened by anyone trying to enter my home.... The castle doctrine here in Ohio gives me the right to defend myself, my family and my property.... police have protocol to follow and should never cross the laws they are supposed to uphold?...

Jbad04 @ 3/6/2012 9:50 AM

Jordan: There are already remedies in place to deal with police misconduct. All this bill will do is create a mindset that a citizen can resist law enforcement in ANY entrance to their residence. So the issue will be resolved by gunfire in the living room instead of the courtroom. Good people, both civilian and LEO, will die because of this good intentioned but badly crafted legislative response to a questionable court ruling.

lawman94 @ 3/6/2012 10:14 AM

No surprise.. Our legislatures (what a joke) are more worried about how to fill their pockets than they worry about helping the people in the state. Our Gov. finds 300 million just laying around (ok????) and gives all his pets raises while the state goes broke. This state needs an overhaul by voting all the elected officals out then spliting it into three halves giving one to Ill, one to Ohio and one to Ky. Im ashamed to call myself a Hoosier!!!! I cant wait to see what our so called legislature & Gov are gona do next.

Take Care

Harold @ 3/6/2012 10:29 AM

There have been recent cases across our nation where police officers have killed their girlfriends, wives, friends, etc. Do you really want a situation where their victims couldn't legally defend themselves, just because the bad guy was wearing a police uniform?

If I lived in your state and this was law. I would defend my family with my life. Come to my house & come in illegally & you WILL get shot. I don't give a crap who you are.

boots3236 @ 3/6/2012 12:24 PM

Umm...For Jordan, how is that you have a say so in this?? Are you a cop or know cops? If you did you sure wouldn't be saying things like that. If you do know cops or are one, I hope and pray that nothing bad ever happens to you!!

As for cases across the nation, you as a citizen have a right to defend yourself and your castle. When an officer is in uniform, he or she KNOWS they are there for a legitimate reason. The bad guy may not think so and this gives them the right to shoot and ask questions later. That is such BS!! Try posting somewhere else!!

Scott Brown APD

Al @ 3/6/2012 1:35 PM

The people talking about police brutality are usually the ones that can't stay out of the criminal justice system. They are arrested and to them it's only for this or that. Police don't make the laws, they enforce them.

sakinn @ 3/6/2012 5:03 PM

As the wife of Police Officer, I am thanking God we don't live in a state with such ignorant legislators!!! Talk about putting your civil servants at greater risk thanks they are already in! There are proper channels for citizens to take if the feel their rights have been violated by the police! There is no need to make it legal to take up arms against Police Officers.

Rad @ 3/6/2012 6:15 PM

T.Boy....you're a friggin idiot. You're obviously NOT a cop, and have NO business on this site, nor are your comments appreciated. This doesn't just mean that more officers will be killed MORON...this is also gonna mean alot more officers are going to DEFEND THEMSELVES, and alot more citizens are gonna get dumped needlessly. Maybe even YOU. Who do you think is gonna be more on target with the first shot? You must be a member of the senate who passed this ridiculous bill. GO back to your couch and stick to watching re-runs of Hill Street Blues, and stay off this site. Jackass!

john @ 3/6/2012 6:19 PM

As a retired Illinois Officer, It shows how the courts across the nation are becoming politically correct and do not want to punish people for doing bad things. "well those poor people" are being brutalized by those bad policemen. They didnt really mean to kill them. A recent homicide by stabbing nettted the killer 4 years. FOUR YEARS! Need we say more. Term limits for every person that holds a PUBLIC office.

Terry Go @ 3/6/2012 6:21 PM

It is always amazing to hear and see,how some politians,judges,attorneys',become so radical to defeat the rule of law.,To create a controversy, in hopes of creating a law,isolating.stereo-typing,and creation of hate,Towards the police. These are the same people,, who hide behind there titles, who demand and expect special treatment, when they commit crimes in there own homes.Maybe they should look at the victims they created ,instead of pretending its someone else,and not me.This is a law that is dangerous to all police officers.These people who support such a law.need to open there eyes more, and see the consequences of such a law. I am a Cop,and hope ,people support the officers in Indianna.

696k @ 3/6/2012 6:26 PM

This is hilariously sad. Sad for the good people on both sides of the badge who could get hurt behind this stupidity. If I didn't know better I'd swear this was the state I work in. We are known for the moronic laws we pass out here in California.

PS. Maybe we should just outlaw politicans?

Rad @ 3/6/2012 7:14 PM

For everyone who thinks this is a "good" law, and keep referring to the 2nd Amendment, or being able to defend your home against "illegal" entry, the vast majority of people out there have absolutely no concept what constitutes "legal" and "illegal" when it comes to how we as LEO's conduct our duties. The vast majority have zero concept of probable cause, other than what they see on "Law and Order". The VAST majority don't know what STOP means when they approach a stop sign. And you're expecting them to discern when they are being "invaded" legally? You're asking them to do something that the vast majority are not prepared to do. Yes, there have been mistakes in search warrant raids, but I would daresay those are the exceptions, not the rules, and I dearly hope we aren't five or six deep in dead Indiana LEO's, or dozens of homeowners who are either bad shots, or don't have the guts to pull the trigger, but simply point their gun or baseball bat at the first guy in the stack, and gets dumped for his trouble, before the Indiana lawmakers pull their collective heads from their anal orifices (yeah, right, not gonna hold my breath), and figure out they've made a grave error that will probably cost them their jobs in addition to alot of lives needlessly wasted and billions of dollars in lawsuits.

Rad @ 3/6/2012 7:15 PM

Cops wear body armor, and usually have shields when they enter homes (hopefully), while homeowners normally don't, unless they're the gangbanger POS's who are legally being raided, but that's to be expected, and we prepare for such eventualities. The bottom line is that I don't see this law being in force for very long, but I do foresee alot of officers being threatened and taking appropriate action, and alot more residents are going to be on slabs than LEO's...hopefully it won't be too many. The wording of the law is only important to LEO's and lawyers...residents only read (and understand) portions of those laws, and interpret them as they see fit, and act accordingly. Good job Indiana senate. Your constituents must be so proud...the ones who survive anyway. Indiana LEO's....Good Luck!

Dan @ 3/6/2012 7:26 PM

Civilians, what gives you the right to take the life of an officer for a mere mistake? As stated in earlier comments, handle your stress from the situation through a law suit. This is not even such a problem with law abiding citizens as much as the law breaking ones. Those who now know they can use deadly force to prevent illegal entry will be very dangerous to themselves and to every officer on duty. 90+ % of Cops are doing their jobs the right way and doing in to help those in need. A few bad ones out there should not sour you on police in general. We do our job and put our lives on the line to save those of you who need us, and to protect your children from those you fear. Nothing good will come from this, if it is passed. Only bloodshed and tears on both sides of the line.

Thor Odinson @ 3/7/2012 7:09 PM

Having worked on 3 PD's I've seen my share of 'hotdogs' who think they are above the law. Colo has the "make my day law allowing the homeowner to use deadly force on an unlawful intruder--its been to the Court of Appeals regarding cops and use of deadly force on unlawful cops upheld. 4th amendment also protects resident property outside the home like your yard from cops too. Add in power of citizen arrest and cops better wise up.

Gus @ 3/7/2012 9:25 PM

I'm sure all the Indiana citizens will understand why the police will NOT go into their house no matter what! They would not want their actions considered possibly illegal!! Good luck with that!

John Russell @ 3/8/2012 5:03 AM

Hey; I like Indiana!! I love this law and make it definitely FEDERAL to apply to the FEDs for sure!

James @ 3/8/2012 6:20 AM

Simple fix. Stop making arrests and let mayhem occur. Brutal that the idiots above commenting on police brutality have no idea how 99% of officers conduct their business; legally and well. Be safe out there and take NO additional risks like entering houses after signing of this law; it's not worth it

shanayray @ 3/8/2012 7:10 AM

Dear T.boy: You are a moron. This has nothing to do with police brutality. It addresses 4th amendment issues with potentially deadly consequences. Here's the scenario: An officer(s) make a LEGAL entry into a home. The owner, either a career criminal or just a dbag doing wrong, says "it's illegal" and shoots. He claims he's justified so he won't get the capital murder/death penalty charge...he gets a lesser homicide charge that makes you folks in IN pay for him forever....meanwhile the officers just dead and his family messed up. This law, as it appears in the text, will let ANYONE on the other side of the door on a search warrant or other LEGAL entry open fire on officers. Whether they are charged for being wrong doesn't really help that officer does it? Citizens have recourse for 4th amendment violations...its called formal complaints, suppression of evidence, having their cases dismissed, and civil litigation. We don't go around simply shooting people for making mistakes...we dont have the right or the ammo. I HOPE your Gov vetos this with a big red stamp.

Terry @ 3/8/2012 12:02 PM

It is truely amazing how many non thinking politicians we have running this country. It makes me wonder if they really think things through, or if they just throw some ridiculous law out there because they had a bad day playing golf. First off how are citizens suppose to know if an officer is there legally or not. So with a law like this if a citizen believes an officer is not there legally they are going to believe they have the right to resist. Which is only going to increase the chance of either an officer being injured or killed or a citizen being injured or killed. How many people actually know what exigent circumstances are, or even if officers have a warrant, the intitial contact is not going to start with reading it. It is going to start with them displaying a weapon and the officers defending themselves. If an officer enters a residence to do harm because of personal reasons and a person defends themselves, I'm pretty sure that local prosecutors have the intelligence to rule their actions as being justified. But putting a blanket law out there for untrained and uninformed citizens to simply act on what they precieve is right, is only asking for someone to be injured or killed for no reason.

Thor Odinson @ 3/9/2012 4:11 PM

Indiana is not alone. Check Colorado--No problems18-1-704.5. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
(1) The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.
(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.
(3) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from criminal prosecution for the use of such force.
(4) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the use of such force.
Source: L. 85: Entire section added, p. 662, § 1, effective June 6.
Cross references: For limitations on civil suits against persons using physical force in defense of a person or to prevent the commission of a felony, see § 13-80-119.
RECENT ANNOTATIONS
Section does not authorize an appeal from a pretrial order denying immunity. An order denying defendant's pretrial motion to dismiss under the "make-my-day" statute is not a final judgment and therefore not subject to appeal. In general, the jury's verdict subsumes the trial court's pretrial ruling. A defendant may, however,

Thor Odinson @ 3/9/2012 4:15 PM

Fact that a homicide victim was on the defendant's porch does not permit the defendant to claim immunity from prosecution for unlawful entry to defendant's dwelling unless the court finds that defendant believed that the victim intended to commit a crime or use physical force against the defendant. People v. Young, 825 P.2d 1004 (Colo. App. 1991).
Defendant may still raise immunity as defense at trial when pretrial motion to dismiss is denied. People v. Guenther, 740 P.2d 971 (Colo. 1987).
For purposes of this section, the common areas of an apartment building do not constitute a dwelling. People v. Cushinberry, 855 P.2d 18 (Colo. App. 1993).
Where pretrial motion to dismiss on grounds of statutory immunity provided in this section is denied, defendant may raise it as an affirmative defense at trial. In such case, the burden of proof which is generally applicable to affirmative defenses would apply. People v. Malczewski, 744 P.2d 62 (Colo. 1987).
Section does not authorize an appeal from the pretrial order denying immunity. People v. Wood, 230 P.3d 1223 (Colo. App. 2009).

Trial court did not commit reversible error by refusing to instr

Thor Odinson @ 3/9/2012 4:16 PM

Because this section creates an immunity defense as well as an affirmative defense, and because the burden of proof for each defense is different, when raised at trial, this section poses special problems when instructing a jury. In such a case, instruction based on language from People v. McNeese, which dealt with pretrial immunity, must be put into context so as not to confuse or mislead the jury about the burden of proof with respect to an affirmative defense raised at trial. People v. Janes, 982 P.2d 300 (Colo. 1999).
Defendant did not establish by a preponderance of the evidence that he was entitled to immunity under this section where he could not show the struggle and wounding of the victim took place in defendant's bedroom of the house he shared with the victim. People v. Eckert, 919 P.2d 962 (Colo. App. 1996).

John Smith @ 3/12/2012 6:04 PM

That ERIC guy sounds like a complete idiot.

J. Burns @ 3/12/2012 9:07 PM

Not knowing the exact language of the bill and based soley on this article, it sounds that publicly making this an issue puts good cops in a bad situation, but that said most LEO's when serving a warrant knock and announce and ARE at the BAD guys house and not some random unsuspecting lawfully abiding citizen's home, that said Ind.'s state senators should have never made a bill saying citizen's can't defend themselves from someone wearing a badge in illegal circumstances and this would have not led to them making another contriversal bill making cops an open target. Stupid people elect stupid politicians......time to vote in some new blood!

Random @ 3/13/2012 4:06 AM



If I were caught breaking my oath of service, I would hope that someone (Police or not) would do whatever it took to stop me. In that case I would be without honor and I would shame my position and family name. Life is temporary and has many paths. It is the path one chooses and what they do on it that determines its value.

rosato @ 3/13/2012 2:24 PM

Ok.....in Indiana police won't enter when a domestic is occurring because of this. I can alot of people dying because of this law. Way to lead Indiana.

Jeff @ 3/13/2012 8:15 PM

Very Bad!!!!!!!!!Now citizens will think they know the laws which some police officers and judges get wrong and go straight for a gun when an officer enters the citizens home when the citizen might not know the officer could be entering on case law or a reason not given to the citizen due to exigent circumstance. Very sad day for that state. Long Live The State of Texas!!!!!!!!!!

Richard Wegner @ 3/15/2012 2:28 AM

As a LEO myself, I must start off with whoever sponsored this bill and supported it are idiots. I can't help but feel there is some political grandstanding going on here. Someone is trying to make a name for themselves. That having been said, they should have simply repealed the law stating that a citizen has no right to resist law enforcement. No matter what we feel about it personally, the public DOES have an absolute right to use force against unlawful arrest. However, citizens beware, if you use this as a reason to employ force against an officer it will be the courts that judge you on whether you were right. This bill and the controversy it has created will undoubtedly cause John Q Thug to think they can fight for any little reason. As officers we will continue to do our jobs the best we can. However, we will defend ourselves as well. This bill will only cause the use of force incidents to increase exponentially.

gary @ 4/2/2012 8:50 PM

Bet the arrest stats go down... for a while.

Trigger @ 4/3/2012 7:05 AM

This legislation is unfortunate however as with some other laws and court decisions we must look at the history behind them. What prompted the passage of this legislation, why was this brought before the high court? We in the profession all know that there are those who wear the badge and use the position and authority in ways that reflect poorly on all of us.

Dan @ 4/7/2012 1:43 PM

This is going to be horrible for law enforcement in Indiana all of them need to get a case of the blue flu and see how long this law lasts.

dan @ 8/2/2013 8:00 AM

Walk in my house in Indiana unannounced and you might pay with your life I don't care who you are.

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