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Edged Weapons and Officer Safety Concerns!!!

1/23/2009 2:46 AM
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4

Edged Weapons and Officer Safety Concerns!!!


I spent several years in the US Army and then got hired as a Sheriff's Deputy following my return home from Desert Storm. I went through the academy and began my probation with the Department. While in the academy we were taught about edged weapon survival and the usual distance between badguy and LEO's was 21 feet. Since the early years in my LE Career I was hurt while chasing a suspect and have sense left as a sworn LEO and now over the past few years I have been persuing asset protection and the private security sector, where we do not get the proper and adequate training needed to keep our skills current. So here is my question: When dealing with a subject with an edged weapon or even leading LEO's that he or she has an edged weapon what is the norm on adequate distance between bad guy and LEO's? Lately I have heard about 40 feet +/- a few. Would someone please shed some light on this and if possible let me know what to find the new updated material. Your assistance is greatly appreciated.


REPLY 1  -  3  of  3
1/23/2009 7:02 PM #1
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 380

RE: Edged Weapons and Officer Safety Concerns!!!


The rule was never truly 21 feet, but that came out and was accepted. The truth was that the experiments showed the reaction time needed and 21 feet was one distance that seemed to beat the officer's reaction time a lot.

The real rule is to stay far enough away to be safe, and to learn how to react in other ways than drawing and shooting. Other ways include stepping aside, blocking the swing, etc. There is no one set distance that can be used in a firm manner for safety or justifying shooting.

1/25/2009 10:51 PM #2
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 215

RE: Edged Weapons and Officer Safety Concerns!!!


Ah, the Tueller 'rule'. Anyways, what Steve said. As a retail Security expert I can tell you right now the odds are very slender that you'll be facing a person 21 (or more) feet away with a knife. Instead, you'll approach the shoplifter, ask him to come with you, he'll say something like, "Wait, I'll give you back the stuff!" reach into his pocket and come out swinging at about 3-4 feet away. You probably won't even know he has a knife at first. Remember that knife swings are just punches after all.

I don't believe that Tueller's intention was to give a distance at which you can shoot, but to show that in a critical incident you may well not have time to draw, aim and shoot an attacker before he is on you. I've been in several edged weapon confrontations and in all I would never have managed to clear my holster before I was stabbed. Luckily, I went in hands free and have only been stabbed once.

Just because you're in the private sector now doesn't mean you can't keep up with CQB training. TREXPO, for instance, has some excellent CQB classes. If I knew then what I've learned at the conferences I'd've never been stabbed that time. I strongly suggest EVERYONE here to go to them. They're fun.

1/27/2009 1:06 PM #3
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 216

PPCT


Quote:
Original post by peacekpr

I spent several years in the US Army and then got hired as a Sheriff's Deputy following my return home from Desert Storm. I went through the academy and began my probation with the Department. While in the academy we were taught about edged weapon survival and the usual distance between badguy and LEO's was 21 feet. Since the early years in my LE Career I was hurt while chasing a suspect and have sense left as a sworn LEO and now over the past few years I have been persuing asset protection and the private security sector, where we do not get the proper and adequate training needed to keep our skills current. So here is my question: When dealing with a subject with an edged weapon or even leading LEO's that he or she has an edged weapon what is the norm on adequate distance between bad guy and LEO's? Lately I have heard about 40 feet +/- a few. Would someone please shed some light on this and if possible let me know what to find the new updated material. Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

Try getting all your officers PPCT trained. In this training they recommend that officers keep a minimum distance of 6 feet between the officer and the suspect for advancing or keeping positions either at the 2 or 2 1/2 position for possible take down. It is considered an interview position so that if the situation takes an unexpected turn, the officer has half a chance to defend themselves.

You'll need to find some one who is certified to teach PPCT, but at least this training is better than nothing when it comes to defensive tactics (without a weapon) for private security officers. If some one has a knife, this will be a close combat situation. Even if the officer does not know if the person is armed, a distance of at least six feet will give the officer an advantage to defend themselves with a take down, side swipe, or even a fast jab at a pressure point to stun the attacker, and then knock the weapon to the side. The officer (depending on their confidence) can either run away or pin the suspect down calling for help.

The only problem with this is that security officers have to be physically able to take down (or to be taken down) in this class. This will pose some problems for those officers who are older or have medical issues. This is where having standards for private security guards needs to be updated.

Private security may want to consider offering the class at a very minimum cost, or free if they can pull it off. Then, those security officers wanting to take it to better their professional abilities have the option to take the class. I would strongly recommend requiring it. It does not hurt anyone to learn how to break free from a person wanting to hurt or kill them. Remember, they also wear a badge and are a target.

"Is your number still 911?" - Ofc. Rachel T.

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