LEOSA and College?

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4/13/2008 11:54 AM

#21

irishone

Join Date: March 2008
Posts: 511

RE: LEOSA and College?

Universities consider concealed-carry laws
The Traveler ^ | 4/11/08 | Pamela Acosta

Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 6:57:37 PM by neverdem

After the North Illinois University and Virginia Tech shootings, college students must not only worry about the rising cost of tuition or whether they failed their math tests, but also whether their campuses are safe.

This need for safety has some people advocating permission to carry concealed weapons on campus, which is not permitted at the UA.

Supporters argue that "carrying" could help stop shootings on campus before they escalate.

If something were to happen and a person with a weapon was there, the aggravator could be stopped before he managed to do more harm, said Travis Robinson, member of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, a nationwide organization advocating guns on campus.

"VT had great police enforcement and the UA does too, but they're going to respond in two or three minutes, when an armed citizen can respond in two or thee seconds."

Apart from increasing the feeling of safety, allowing people to carry guns on campus acts as deterrence, he said.

"Students should have the right to defend themselves like everybody else," Robinson said.

Utah is the only state that allows concealed weapons in public universities, according to a Feb. 28 CNN.com article. The University of Utah in Salt Lake City prohibited firearms until the ban was struck down by the state Supreme Court in late 2006.

And while school officials fight to reinstate the ban, state legislators are considering a bill that would modify the law and allow people in Utah - including students - to carry loaded weapons openly, according to the article.

At least 13 other states are considering some sort of concealed-carry legislation aimed at college campuses, according to the National Conference on State Legislatures.

Noting the potential accident or misuse of guns, the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement does not endorse concealed carry on campus, according to a March 8 article in The Philadelphia Inquirer.

Groups such as SCC argue that college campuses should not be any different than any other place in Arkansas.

"You don't know if the person behind you at the movie theater or the person buying milk in front of you in Wal-Mart is carrying. Campuses are not any different, " Robinson said.

"People who have permits are responsible, mature students, citizens. Do you see a problem carrying in Wal-Mart? There isn't."

In Arkansas, guns also are prohibited in police stations, jails, courthouses, polling places, government buildings, sporting events, bars, schools, airports and churches, according to the state Web site, http://state.ar.us.

But not everybody thinks like Robinson.

"In this issue, there are cons and pros, and I think that there are more cons, " said Lt. Gary Crain, public information officer for the UA Police Department.

Statistics indicate that in Arkansas, there's a small fraction of people who have permission to carry a concealed weapon. The likelihood of one of those people being in the right place at the right time is slim, and allowing guns is just bringing another weapon on campus, Crain said.

This would open the door to people having guns to defend themselves when a theft or a fit of anger occurs.

In 1993, during a student hearing at Weber State University in Ogden, Utah, a student pulled out two loaded pistols and opened fire, injuring three people before a police officer killed him, according to a Jan. 25, 2002, New York Times article.

"Let's say a student goes to see a professor and the student is angry," Crain said. "Is that professor feeling safe? In the resident hall, if you knew someone down the hall had a gun, are you feeling safe if you're having a confrontation with this person?"

In 1991, a man entered Luby's Cafeteria in Texas and began shooting people. A woman there had permission to carry a gun, but she had left it in the car because of laws restricting her. The woman's parents and 21 other people were shot, and the woman said if she had had her gun, the situation could have been contained, according to a Newsweek article.

"In that instance, it would've made a difference, but in most instances, it would not," Crain said.

Some people argue the knowledge of guns on campus would deter people from committing such a crime. But "those individuals that would do something like that are already deranged. They wouldn't think like that," Crain said.

A former student at NIU killed six and wounded 15 on Feb. 15, and at Virginia Tech, a gunman killed 33 people in April 2007. A gun-violence crime occurred at the UA when a former student shot Professor John Locke in 2000. All three shooters killed themselves after their crimes.

Although nobody can prepare for the impact of an attack like that, Crain said, UAPD is prepared to respond to such a situation.

Incidents like this have been prevented because people are alert and report situations that seem out of the ordinary, he said.

"Members of the community should not take things for granted [but should] be aware of their surroundings and report things that they see," he said. "A community is safer when everyone participates in the safety of the community."

To get a concealed-carry weapons permit, a person must be 21 years old and complete an application packet for a Concealed Handgun Permit from the state police in Little Rock. The application also can be downloaded online, and the application packet needs to include both a license and fingerprint fee, full set of fingerprints and waiver to allow the police to access medical records. Along with that, the applicant should include a reference letter from a judge, sheriff or attorney stating the person is free from a criminal charge more than 10 years old.

SCC will hold an empty-holster protest to create awareness and answer questions April 21 to 25. "Empty holster" represents how people who have permits feel when they can't bring their guns on campus, Robinson said.

SCC has more than 25,000 members nationwide on more than 500 campuses, according to the organization's Web site.

Robinson joined the group when he turned 21 in September after the VT shooting, he said.

For more information on the subject, visit http://www.concealedcampus.org or http://www.bradycenter.org.

4/13/2008 11:56 AM

#22

irishone

Join Date: March 2008
Posts: 511

RE: LEOSA and College?

Concealed Carry on Campus? Updated X2
March 20th, 2008 at 11:41am Aaron Chambers

The Feb. 14 shooting deaths at NIU’s Cole Hall, coupled with the previous massacre at Virginia Tech, have fueled a movement dedicated to encouraging concealed guns on college campuses.

A group called Students for Concealed Carry on Campus is growing at campuses across the nation, as at least 12 states are considering legislation to allow college students to carry concealed guns on campus, NPR reports. A print version of NPR’s story, as well as a link to an audio interview with a SCCC leader, are here.

After deadly shootings at schools in Illinois and Virginia, 12 states are considering legislation to allow guns on college campuses. Stephen Feltoon, a director for Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC), is part of a movement that says college students should have the same gun ownership rights as others.

Feltoon says he purchased his first gun for recreation. “Now I own it for defense,” he says. “I can take a firearm anywhere that’s not a college campus, a liquor establishment, or any business that posts a ‘no gun’ sign. When am I carrying it? That’s the beauty of conceal and carry. You’ll never know until I need it.”

It’s not clear how great of a presence SCCC has among Illinois campuses. But students at four Illinois colleges identify themselves as local contacts for the group. Their names and contact info are here. (The list of contacts, nationwide, is extensive and worth a look.)

Illinois law does not permit concealed carry, despite the best efforts of advocates. However, there are those who argue that Illinois law does permit a citizen to carry a handgun concealed in a fanny pack.

In November 2005, the Register Star published this report:

SPRINGFIELD — Just store your handgun and ammunition separately in your fanny pack, and go about your day.

As long as you own the gun legally and you don’t happen to be in a local government that precludes such a move, you’re perfectly legal in Illinois.

At least that’s the interpretation of the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police, which raised the issue Tuesday during a Capitol news conference where law-enforcement officials called for greater state restrictions on guns.

Giacomo “Jack” Pecoraro, the group’s executive director, called the loophole “Illinois’ implied conceal carry” law.

“If you’ve seen tourists with the small bags, you can have the firearm in the bag over here and the clip or the necessary rounds. It takes a mere second to load it,” he said. “And that’s allowable, and this is what we’re trying to stop.”

Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association, agreed with that interpretation. However, he said an individual carrying an unloaded gun in a fanny pack would not be legal “on a public street.”

UPDATE 1

Stateline.org offers a good deal of background on how state lawmakers around the nation are revisiting concealed carry laws in light of campus violence. These two stories are dated — they were published last spring, following the Virgina Tech shootings — but useful nonetheless.

The first story:

The most recent legislative debate in Virginia, one of 48 states that issue permits allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms, arose after Virginia Tech disciplined an unnamed student who brought a firearm to class in 2005.

State Del. Mark Cole (R) this spring failed to push through a measure that would have let students with concealed-carry permits bring firearms on campus, trumping the school’s policy prohibiting them. The legislation languished in a subcommittee after a hearing. A similar measure failed last year.

The same issue came up this year in Utah, too, with the opposite result. The University of Utah gave up its struggle to keep its gun restrictions. A new law signed last month by Gov. Jon Huntsman (R) allows students to request roommates who don’t have a concealed-carry permit. Students 21 or older can bring firearms to campus if they have permits.

The second story:

In reaction to the Virginia Tech shooting spree, a Louisiana state lawmaker and higher education officials unveiled legislation Wednesday (April 18) to make clear that the state’s public universities can ban guns in student dorm rooms.

Legislation by Louisiana state Rep. Richard Gallot (D) seeks to remove any doubt that guns are banned from college dorm rooms, despite a conflict between a state law allowing Louisiana residents to keep guns in their homes and one banning firearms at universities.

The Louisiana proposal is the latest illustration of the collision between gun-free policies at state-run universities and state laws that are making it easier for citizens to carry firearms in other public places. While some states explicitly allow college campuses to ban guns, public universities such as Virginia Tech have had to defend their firearm restrictions in the face of laws in 48 states allowing citizens to get permits to carry concealed firearms. Sometimes, students have been the ones to challenge campus gun bans.

UPDATE 2

I reached out to the SCCC’s contacts at Illinois campuses to find out more about the group’s activity in this state. D. Scott Dennison, the SCCC campus leader at Parkland College in Champaign, responded by e-mail:

Thank you for the email and for your interest in the SCCC cause. It is very difficult to say exactly how many members are from a particular area. Anyone can become a member, and disclosing your location is not required. This is also the case for your question about exactly which campuses are active. What I can say, though, is that we are very proudly over 20,000 members strong and are still rapidly growing. From the beginning, SCCC has been a nation wide organization, so all states have always been included. Unfortunately, Illinois is one of the only two remaining non-carry states. Therefore, we Illinois based campus leaders have a much more serious situation on our hands. We must appeal to state representatives as well as college campuses. Illinois and Wisconsin will come to their senses soon enough. Again, thank you for contacting me.

Entry Filed under: Guns, Northern Illinois University

7 Comments Add your own
1. Mary Allen | March 20th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Oh, dear God….what a disaster this would be. I work at NIU, and would rather take my chances with a nut, than to have kids carrying guns around campus. Think of the scenerio in Cole Hall - 150 kids trying to get away standing, crawling on the floor - if someone else pulled a gun, who knows how many more people would have been shot & hurt….inadvertenly, of course. I can hear it now - “I had the gunman in sight, and the kid just stood up in front of me.”, etc, etc.
Don’t get the class section they want? Pull out the gun. Don’t like a grade? Someone looked at my girlfriend? I think that you get the picture.
Campus would be less safe by far! Remember, these kids drink a LOT, some take drugs, smoke pot; already they drive, they are on the cellphone, they text message - they are not quite mature. They need confidence, love, guidance and some need to grow up. The one thing that they do NOT need is guns.

2. dave | March 20th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
48 states have CCW laws conceal carry weapon laws allowing weapons to be legally carried. Why do police carry weapons? To protect themselves, not us the citizens. Most altercations occur and are long over before the police arrive. What if one of the ladies at Lane Bryant had been legally carrying a weapon. What if of the the many veterans in that college class had been licensed to carry? Here in Rockford I have to wait till the idiot outside the house shooting up the street at 5am at a another drug dealer. breaks into my home before I can defend myself. Sure the police were on the way but it still took 10 mins. Do you know I can legally carry a wapon in 30 states if I take a class and get a out ot state license? I just can protect myself here. Illinois and Wisconson are the only holdouts, All the other states have allowed what is legal, and protecxted by our 2 ammendment rights. Crime drops when the criminal can\\\\\\\’t be sure that the person he is accosting is armed or not. Other states have had no problems with CCW laws, they see a reduction in crime.

3. Scott Dennison | March 20th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Mary Allen, unfortunately your opinion is a common one, especially here in Illinois. Keep in mind that ALL of the so called “kids” being discussed here are of legal age to purchase and carry guns, already carry them everywhere BUT school, and take special courses (much like those that police officers must take) in order to be able to do so. Cases of these law abiding citizens suddenly snapping and using their firearms to break the law are VERY few and far between. Some official numbers are on the SCCC site. Furthermore, and as you have tragically already witnessed, no matter what laws are in place or whether or not there is a sign that says “Gun Free Zone”, a deranged person who is inclined to do crazy things WILL do those things. The scenario of a crazed murderer, bank robber, or otherwise sick person walking up to see a warning sign and saying, “Oh, shucks, I can’t take these guns in here” just does not happen. Gun free zones ONLY succeed in prohibiting LAW ABIDING and TRAINED citizens from carrying their protective sidearms into places where they clearly may be needed. How many more students have to die in vain before people realize this?

Nothing personal, but the only individuals whom I have personally debated with or have overheard speaking to others, are those who have no personal experience whatsoever with firearms. Also, I’ve had the joy of teaching some of these people about firearms and allowing them to fire a few. Miraculously, most of their negative views of guns suddenly change.

4. Bookworm | March 20th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Well, I really don’t know what to think about this one.
On the one hand, I believe people have a natural right to defend themselves; therefore, responsible adult citizens have a right to own and carry weapons unless some reason exists to deny or limit that right (e.g. a criminal record, mental instability)
On the other hand, I don’t see concealed carry being the cure-all for crime that some gun advocates seem to think. It would probably be more effective at preventing one-on-one attacks than mass shootings.
As for college students having guns… they are legally adults at 18 and are old enough to handle weapons in the military at that age. But knowing some of the stupid and impulsive things college students do, particularly when drunk — like the Bradley University students who set their friend’s room on fire with Roman candles — do we really want them running around with guns?
Perhaps concealed carry of guns, like alcohol consumption, should be limited to those over 21, with a lower age limit for those who have served or are serving in the military.

5. Stephen J. Feltoon | March 21st, 2008 at 9:11 am
Bookworm: For the most part, CCW is limited to those over 21. We’re not claiming it’s a cure-all. Certainly if 4 armed individuals have guns pointed at you at close range, you’re not going to go Chuck Norris on them and then take out your own gun. You’re right that this is mostly to stop crimes against an individual. SCCC recognizes that, thankfully, campus shootings are few and far between, but other violent crimes that occur more frequently like rape, armed robbery, and assault are crimes where use of a firearm would be prudent. You’re also right in that alcohol and firearms never mix, ever, and most–if not all–states have some sort of regulation against carrying (or at least firing) a gun while intoxicated.

Yes, some college students do stupid and impulsive things. Don’t act like real-world adults don’t either, though. If a licensee uses a firearm while drunk they’re not any better than if they didn’t have a license. If that does happen, chances are they weren’t carrying to begin with (they probably had the gun locked in another room), so now you’re just talking about gun ownership rather than carrying. The biggest argument for this is that most upperclassmen live off-campus anyway where laws about campus carry don’t apply. There’s still alcohol, most of the partying I’ve seen occurs off-campus, and yet you’re not seeing the type of carnage that you are thinking about.

6. Bookworm | March 24th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Thanks, Stephen and Scott, for your responses. I was not aware that other states have laws specifically against firing or carrying a weapon while intoxicated — that makes sense just as laws against driving or boating while intoxicated make sense.
Some years ago, a distant relative of mine and her fiance were shot to death by their best friend during an argument that erupted at the friend’s home after all three had gone out drinking. The friend then killed himself and left a note explaining what happened and saying that he was sorry. They were not college students but they were all between 20 and 25 years old, high school graduates and gainfully employed, with no criminal records of any kind. My relative and her fiance were just six months away from getting married. The friend was an avid hunter and I believe he used a shotgun. There was no legal reason for him not to own guns, but he only had to slip up and lose control of himself that one time. Of course the same applies to driving a car — you only have to mess up once to kill or injure yourself or someone else. Perhaps cases like this should be emphasized in gun safety training just as warnings about drunk driving are given to teens as part of their driver’s ed. In any even this is a serious issue that deserves serious thought instead of the knee-jerk reactions we usually see.

7. Stephen J. Feltoon | March 24th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Bookworm:

No problem. SCCC understands that in order to achieve our goals we must first educate. I’m very sorry to hear about your relative and her fiancee. It’s always tragic to hear about someone illegally using firearm. I don’t want to make light of what happened, but I want to point out that you’re talking about simple gun ownership, not carrying. Most states don’t require a license to OWN a gun, just to carry it concealed. While CCW licensees make up approx. 1% of the population, there are more gun owners. Had he not been a gun owner, he might’ve just as easily used a pipe wrench or knife. Guns, knives, pipe wrenches, cars…these are all tools. You’re right that a drunk driver is just as illegal as a drunk licensee who’s carrying (for the most part).

We’re asking that people give this serious thought because it’s a very serious matter.

4/13/2008 11:58 AM

#23

irishone

Join Date: March 2008
Posts: 511

RE: LEOSA and College?

ConcealedCampus.com
*“Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns,” John Lott and David Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies (v.26, no.1, pages 1-68, January 1997); “An
Analysis of The Arrest Rate Of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders as Compared to the Arrest Rate of the Entire Texas Population,” William E. Sturdevant,
September 1, 2000; Florida Department of Justice statistics, 1998; Florida Department of State, “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report,” 1998; Texas
Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September, 2000; Texas Department of Corrections data, 1996-2000
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus is a non-partisan, grassroots organization aimed at
drawing attention to the fact that holders of concealed handgun licenses/concealed carry weapons
permits are forced by state laws and school policies to disarm before entering most college
campuses, despite being legally permitted to carry concealed handguns virtually everywhere
else—office buildings, movie theaters, grocery stores, shopping malls, banks, etc.
Declaring a college campus a “gun free zone” may make some people feel safer, but as the
April 16, 2007, massacre at Virginia Tech and the February 14, 2008, massacre at Northern
Illinois University illustrated, feeling safe is not the same as being safe. Denying licensed
individuals the means to defend themselves on college campuses turns institutions of higher
learning into supermarkets for would-be rapists and mass murderers.
Current state laws and school policies prohibit licensed, law-abiding citizens from carrying
concealed handguns onto college campuses, while doing nothing to disarm individuals not
concerned with following the rules. These laws and policies hand armed madmen, like the
Virginia Tech and NIU killers, virtual cornucopias of defenseless victims. In the event of a school
shooting, students and faculty are left with no recourse but to hide under their desks, hoping to
survive until enough police arrive to formulate a plan and storm the building.
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus hopes that increased awareness of the discrepancy
between the rules on college campuses and the rules outside of college campuses will motivate
citizens to push state legislators and campus administrators to amend existing laws and policies so
that concealed handgun license/concealed carry weapons permit holders can legally carry their
firearms on college campuses, the same way they currently do at almost all other unsecured (no
metal detectors or x-ray machines) locations.
In most states a CHL/CCW applicant must be 21 years of age or older, pass both state and
federal (FBI) fingerprint and background checks (often including investigations into records of
mental health and sealed/expunged criminal records), attend a state mandated training course, pass
both a written and a practical (shooting) test, and have his or her fingerprints and photograph on
file with both state authorities and the FBI. Statistically*, concealed handgun license/concealed
carry weapons permit holders commit violent crimes at a rate five times lower than non-license
holders. CHL/CCW holders are neither criminals nor vigilantes hoping for the chance to shoot a
“bad guy;” they are concerned citizens, just like you, who desire the means to extricate themselves
from danger, should the unimaginable occur.
SCCC demands to know why individuals who are deemed by state and federal authorities to
be competent and trustworthy enough to carry concealed handguns elsewhere are denied this right
on college campuses.
For more information on the issue of concealed carry on campus and why it would NOT
lead to more violence on college campuses or detract from the educational process, please visit
www.ConcealedCampus.com.
ConcealedCampus.com
STUDENTS FOR CONCEALED CARRY ON CAMPUS
The Facts
- 47 states currently issue Concealed Carry Weapons permits (CCWs) or Concealed Handgun Licenses (CHLs).
*Vermont neither offers nor requires a license to carry a handgun (openly or concealed). Illinois and Wisconsin do not have provisions for legal concealed carry.
- Criminals are more afraid of confronting a potential victim with a gun than they are of the police.
*U.S. Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, "The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons," Research Report (July 1985)
- 3/5 of convicted felons say they would not “mess around” with a person they suspected might have a gun.
*U.S. Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice, "The Armed Criminal in America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons," Research Report (July 1985)
- CCW/CHL holders are statistically LESS violent than the rest of the population. They are arrested for violent crimes at a rate
five times lower than non-license holders (even lower than police officers in many states).
*Florida Department of State, “Concealed Weapons/Firearms License Statistical Report,” 1998
*Texas Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Census Bureau, reported in San Antonio Express-News, September 2000
*FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, 2004 - excludes Hawaii and Rhode Island - small populations and geographic isolation create other determinants to violent crime.
*John Lott and David Mustard, “Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns,” Journal of Legal Studies (v.26, no.1, pages 1-68, January 1997)
* William E. Sturdevant, “An Analysis of the Arrest Rate of Texas Concealed Handgun License Holders as Compared to the Arrest Rate of the Entire Texas Population,”
September 1, 2000
*"D.C. Police Paying for Hiring Binge," Washington Post, 8/28/94
*Memorandum by James T. Moore, Commissioner of Florida's Department of Law Enforcement, to the Office of the Governor, dated 3/15/95
- Despite the predictions of those who opposed the passage of state Concealed Carry laws, when such laws were first proposed
two decades ago, the presence of concealed handguns has not created an epidemic of everyday arguments turning into shootings.
*Colorado State University and all public universities in Utah allow CHL/CCW holders to carry their firearms on campus. Those schools have not had any problems.
*"I lobbied against the law in 1993 and 1995 because I thought it would lead to wholesale armed conflict. That hasn't happened. All the horror stories I thought would come
to pass didn't happen. No bogeyman. I think it's worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert." -- Glenn White, president of
the Dallas Police Association, Dallas Morning News, 12/23/97
*"I...[felt] that such legislation present[ed] a clear and present danger to law-abiding citizens by placing more handguns on our streets. Boy was I wrong. Our experience in
Harris County, and indeed statewide, has proven my fears absolutely groundless." -- Harris County [Texas] District Attorney John Holmes, Dallas Morning News, 12/23/97
*"Some of the public safety concerns which we imagined or anticipated a couple of years ago, to our pleasant surprise, have been unfounded or mitigated." -- Fairfax County
VA Police Major Bill Brown, Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97
*"I was wrong. But I'm glad to say I was wrong." -- Arlington County VA Police Detective Paul Larson, The Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97
*"The concerns I had--with more guns on the street, folks may be more apt to square off against one another with weapons--we haven't experienced that." -- Charlotte-
Mecklenburg NC Police Chief Dennis Nowicki, The News and Observer, 11/24/97
- Concealed Carry Laws reduce mass public shootings.
*Lott, J., Landes, W.; "Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement;"
University of Chicago – covers years 1977 to 1995
- Reducing the number of guns does NOT reduce violent crime.
*Don B. Kates and Gary Mauser, “Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence”
- The United States Supreme Court has ruled that police have NO duty to protect the lives of citizens, yet concealed handgun
license holders must leave their greatest means of defenses behind when they step onto college campuses.
*"...law enforcement officers have no affirmative duty to provide such protection..." - South v. Maryland, 1856
*"...there is no Constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen." - Bowers v. DeVito, 1982
- Concealed handgun license holders carry for defense of life only. They do not act like the police and actively seek out a shooter.
- Nearly every “shootout” between two armed individuals is over in less than 10 seconds. Mass shootings can exceed 30 minutes.
*In The Line of Fire: Violence Against Law Enforcement, U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, National Institute of Justice, 1997
*The real Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, a gunfight involving nine armed participants, lasted only about 30 seconds.
*Virginia Tech massacre – 9 minutes; Columbine High School massacre – 49 minutes; Luby’s Cafeteria massacre – 15 minutes
- Most victims of mass shootings are shot at pointblank range, by assailants who move slowly and methodically from victim to
victim. It requires neither superhuman reflexes nor deadeye accuracy to defend oneself against such an attack.
- Police forces are trained to expect armed “bad guys” and armed “good guys”—be it off-duty/undercover police officers or armed civilians—in tactical scenarios. CHL holders are state and FBI certified “good guys.”

- There are no significant differences between carrying a concealed handgun on a college campus and carrying a concealed handgun in an office building, shopping mall, restaurant, grocery store, bank, or movie theater (a few of the places CHL/CCW
holders are currently permitted to carry concealed handguns).

4/14/2008 12:02 PM

#24

irishone

Join Date: March 2008
Posts: 511

RE: LEOSA and College?

ME THINKS INCUSTODY IS OLDHAG

irishone

RE: LEOSA and College?

irishone

RE: LEOSA and College?

irishone

RE: LEOSA and College?

irishone

RE: LEOSA and College?

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